1989 150GT Johnson

[foreman33]

Today when I had my boat out I could only get the motor to 1100 RPM's. Whenever I would try to give it more gas it would just die and shut off. As long as I kept it below 1100 RPM's it was ok. I had this problem 2 years ago and it was the primer bulb that was bad. I replaced the bulb and it was fine. So today when I got home I took the bulb off and tried to blow in it. It would let me blow in the direction of the arrow but if I tried to blow in it the other way I couldn't. Could this still be bad and cause the motor not to get enough gas and then just shut it off when I try to go on plane? This is similar to what happened 2 years ago and when I replaced the primer bulb it solved the problem. If I put the motor in neutral, I can run it at 5000 RPM without any trouble. It's just when it is under a load and I'm trying to go on plane that it shuts off. Hit the key and it immediately fires right up. Give it gas and try to go on plane again and it shuts off. Hit the key again and it immediately fires right up. As long as I keep it under 1100 RPM's it's fine. I also took the plugs out and them seemed pretty good.
The motor is a 1989 GT150 Johnson. Model # J150STLCEM. The plugs are Champion QL77JC4 gapped at .040.
Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

your bulb is fine, it has a check valve in it sounds like you have clogged high speed jets in the carb. when were they last cleaned, when was the engine last run?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

First, check the compression. What are the readings of all cylinders.

Second, with the spark plugs removed, at cranking speed, the spark should jumpe a 7/16" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame.... a real SNAP! Does it?

If the above areas are as they should be, the most likely cause of the hesitation or engine die out is that the carburetors are fouled OR the timer base under the flywheel is sticking.

NOTE: DO NOT ever race the engine in neutral to a high rpm as you could encounter a runaway engine....... connecting rods flying thru the side of the crankcase etc!

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,
Nice to hear from you again. I'm glad your still here helping all of us novices. Tomorrow I'll give it a compression check and let you know what I find. I've had the boat out about 6 times this year so far and I only had trouble the last 2 times I had it out. The time before it happened right before I was putting the boat back on the trailer so I never checked it out until today when I took it out and it did the same thing right from the get go. Is it still possible that the primer bulb is bad? I replaced it a couple of years ago or maybe 3 years ago. You said to check for spark with the spark plugs removed and the spark should jump a 7/16 gap. I'm not sure where you mean that the spark should jump from and to. How or what do I do to check for this spark to jump a 7/16 gap? Do I check from each plug wire with the plug connected to the wire or what? Not exactly sure how to check what you said with the spark. I did a decarbanation about 2 years ago. Should I do that again? Not also sure where the timer base is under the flywheel that might be sticking. I have a shop manual as well as a Clymer manual so I guess I should get them out and see if I can find this info. I'm not real happy with the Clymer manual but the shop manual seems to be more precise in what it tells you.
Glad to hear from you again Joe and thanks again for the info.

Foreman33

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

a clymer is to use when changing the lower unit oil, put it under to lower unit, to keep the oil from dripping on the driveway.

Joe, describes makeing a homemade spark tester in this link, near the bottom. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=205652&highlight=spark+tester

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Gentlemen,
Tashasdaddy and Joe
Just was too busy today to check out my boat problems. You no I'm retired now and someone told me before I retired that I would never have time to do the things that I wanted to do and I laughed at them and told them they are crazy. Well guess what, they were right. I used to work 6 to 7 days a week 10 to 12 hours a day and I always got things done. Now that I'm retired it seems I never get done what I want to accomplish. Life is funny isn't it? Hopefully tomorrow I will get somethings checked out but being that tomorrow is July 4th I doubt it.
I really appreciate the info that you guys gave me and hopefully I will get things check out and get back to you real soon.
Have a great 4th of July and talk to you real soon.

Foreman33

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe & Tashasdaddy,

I'm pretty sure I found the problem. Joe, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, the linkage that goes to the timer base was not connected to the throttle linkage. There is a plactic gromet that snaps into the throttle linkage that somehow go popped out of the linkage. You couldn't see it from inside the boat you had to be standing alongside the motor to see it because it is under the flywheel. I felt like such a complete idiot when I saw it hanging there. Of all the stupid things that I thought it was and it was so simple just hanging there. Joe, you were right on when you said the timer base because it never moved to advance the timing. I don't know how it popped out of the socket or maybe the gromet is worn that made it happen. But it snapped back in place and I did the procedure of putting the throtle forward and engaging the forward gear and then continued to move the throtle forward and it moved the timer base like it should. Right on Joe. Well then I figured I might as well check out the compression so I did. Here are the results: #1 cyl = 95, #3 cyl = 95, #5 cyl =95, #2 cyl = 93, #4 cyl = 95, and #6 = 93. So I guess that it is pretty good for a compression check. Would like to have seen it in the 100 + but it is an 1989 so I guess I shouldn't complain. I also put in a new set of Champion QL77JC4's and set the gap like you once said Joe to .040 instead of the .030 that the service manual said. I've been setting my gap at .040 since you said that is what you said it should be set at. I also changed the oil in the lower unit and greased all of the fittings on the motor. And I had to fix the live well drain cable in the port side because the end that fits into the lever was broken so I had to make some adjustments to get it back into the lever. It works fine now or at least until I get a new cable. At least I can drain the live well and also close it to keep my fish alive. So as you can see I spent a few hours working on the boat today. Didn't get to do a spark test yet but I will when I make the tester that you explained how to make Joe. And finally I'm not retired anymore. I'm going to do some consulting work for the company that I retired from after 43 1/2 years. I've been retired now for a year and a 1/2 so I guess I'll do a little work to keep me busy. I'll be doing computer control work on machines. That was part of my job before I retired and I enjoyed that part most of all. PLC, programmable logic control. Almost everything in the industry is controlled by a computer anymore. Not too much relay logic anymore. It's amazing how you can control a machine with a computer.
Well Joe and Tashasdaddy thank you very much for your input and expert advise. Your guys are great. Well at least this idiot has learned something. You can always teach an old dog new tricks. I knew that I could count on the Iboats Forum to get results. Next time I haved a problem I know who to ask. Keep up the great work and have a wonderful day on the water.

Foreman33 Namaste

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,

I forgot to ask you, it has been about 2 years since I decarbed the engine. Should I do that now?

Foreman33

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Since that timer base Ball & Socket assembly failed once, I strongly suggest that you replace the set.

Also..... something had to take place to make that unit pop out.

Check carefully the top main bearing by grabbing the flywheel and pushing and pulling it in various directions to see if it moves.

Also check the timer base to make sure that it does not move sideways of wobbles.

You'll have the flywheel off to check the timer base so while you're at it, check the center portion of the flywheel (small sensor magnets) to make sure they aren't starting to melt down and grabbing the timer base.

Having that socket unit pull apart may just be a weird happening that will never happen again.... BUT.... this is the time to be checking.

At any rate, install a new ball & socket assy.

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,

I'll try and get a new set of ball and socket to replace the ones that I have. I took the boat out yesterday and it ran fine. At first it was a little sluggish but after a few seconds it took right off on plane. I had no problem with the ball and socket the rest of the day. Although, my cranking battery went dead and I had to use the trolling motor to get back to the launch and put the boat on the trailer. I was running my livewells most of the day and I assume that is what killed the battery. Here's the strange thing, I had a set of jumpers in the boat and tried to jump from the trolling motor batteries and it didn't work. The cables got hot and so I quit. I told my son-in-law to turn the key and try to start the motor but it wouldn't start because it was still turning over very slow so I told him to turn it of and it kept trying to start the motor. He turned off the key and pulled it out and still the starter stayed engaged and was tyring to start. I disconnected the jumper cables and it quit. Put the boat on the trailer and pulled it out of the lake. I tried to raise the motor up with the jumper cables attached and it tried again to start the motor. I had my son-in-law hold the up trim button and again when he did, the motor tried to start. I had to disconnect the cable to the starter to get it to stop engaging and then I was able to raise the motor up so I could put the motor tender on and be able to drive it home safely. I brought the boat home and plugged in the onboard charger and all the electronics seem to work fine. I had the starter cable hooked back up and it didn't attempt to start. I could raise and lower the motor with the trim buttons without any problems.
What could have cause the starter solenoid to stay engaged and try to strat the motor when I was at the lake?
It seems fine now, but I'm going to get a new cranking battery and replace the one that is in there now. It is a 24 and I'm going to put in a 27 so I have more battery to do the work since all the electronics run off this batter as well as starting the motor.
Should I go to a 31 instead on the 27?
My 2 trolling motor batteries are 27's, and they seem to work fine. All of these batteries are at least 5 years old so I guess I can't complain.
When I come back from fishing I always immediately plug in the onboard charger to keep the batteries charged. Actually in the winter I keep the onboard charger on continuously. I read an article and it said that it best to keep your batteries charged at all times so that is what I do. After the onboard charger charges the batteries it goes into a trickle charge which keeps everything fully charged.
Again thanks for your input and help. If you have any suggestions on the cranking battery as to the size let me know.

Foreman33

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

A bad battery, or even a good battery that's been fairly well discharged will cause the internal contacts of the starter solenoid to arc and jam as if a arc welder was taken to them...... and this will occur again!

Don't wait..... install a new starter solenoid now.

Have you checked to make sure that the engine's charging system is operational? Jumper cables that get HOT? Check the polarity of those batterys to make sure all of the positive terminal read positive. It's quite easy to charge them backwards..... and if this is the case, I'd suspect that it would damage the engine's rectifier.

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,
This is the first time that I ever had the contacts stick on the starter solenoid. Iv'e always had a problem with the starter and keeping the bendix engaged into the flywheel. It would engage and then drop down and continue to spin. I put a brand new bendix on and it didn't make any difference. This only seems to cause a problem the very first time that I try to start the motor. After it starts, I just hit the key and it immediate fires right up. The rest of the day I have no problem starting the motor. It's only the first time after the motor sets for a couple of days. I feel that if the solenoid stayed in the flywheel longer it would start a lot quicker the first time. Sometimes I have to try it 3 or 4 or more times before the motor starts. Once it starts no problem. Different people have been telling me that it might be my starting battery is not strong enough to keep the bendix engaged. Is this a possibility?
Well anyway, I just order a new 27 marine cranking battery that should be in on Monday. Like I said, the battery that is in there now is only a 24 so maybe this 27 will give me the boost that I need to keep the bendix engaged till the motor starts instead of dropping out after just a couple of seconds.
Now the solenoid that is on there now does it have to be replaced with one that is the exact part number or can I use another solenoid that is maybe made for a car or truck that might be made for heavier duty?
Can I buy parts like the solenoid and the snap linkage that I need from Iboats.com? Or would you recommend another place to buy from? My local Johnson dealer has moved out of the area so I don't have a local place to buy my parts from anymore.
I also noticed that the negative leads on the battery were a little corroaded, so I took them off and cleaned them and reattached them. I had stainless steel wing nuts on there which I know is a no no. I took the wing nuts off and repalced them with stainless steel fiberlock nuts. I also noticed that the positive cable was not real tight so now I have SS fiberlock nuts on there now too. That's what should have been on there in the first place. I also sprayed some grease on these leads to keep them from corroding.
As you probably noticed, my replies are a bit lengthy. I appoligize for the lengthy reply but I feel that I explain things well enough so that you can better understand my problems and be able to give me a more correct answer to my questions.
Thanks again Joe for your quick reply.

Foreman33

 

[72SideWinderSS]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Forman33,
Joe had asked a question about your upper bearing having any play.

"Check carefully the top main bearing by grabbing the flywheel and pushing and pulling it in various directions to see if it moves."

I did not see a reply to his question. I have an "85" 150hp that has play in the upper bearing and was awaiting his response.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Check with iboats for parts. I have no idea of their parts selection.

THe lengthy posts are no problem BUT it would be better if you broke them up into paragraphs. As the above stands, it has a tendency to flow together after awhile and makes for difficult reading

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

72sidewinderss,
Yes I checked the flywheel and there is no play.

Foreman33

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,

There were a couple of questions in my previous post that weren't answered.


Different people have been telling me that it might be my starting battery is not strong enough to keep the bendix engaged. Is this a possibility?


Do you have any ideas as to why the bendix does not always stay engaged with the flywheel when the key is held in start position?


Now the solenoid that is on there now does it have to be replaced with one that is the exact part number or can I use another solenoid that is maybe made for a car or truck that might be made for heavier duty?


Iboats.com does have the replacement solenoid for my motor but they do not show the ball and socket linkage that you said I should replace.


How do I check and make sure that the engines charging system is operational? How do I test that?


The battery terminals are on the correct + & - post. And I'm almost positive that I had the jumpers connected properly. Maybe just not a good enough contact with the jumpers that they got warm.


Is my choice of a 27 battery over a 24 a good or bad choice for a starting battery? Or should I even go to a 31?


I hope this post is easier to read and answer.


Foreman33

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

The power of the battery has nothing to do with keeping the bendix engaged. A almost dead battery would be enough to have the bendix engaged and it would simply stay there. What normally disengages the bendix is the force of the engine spinning that flywheel at its sudden super high revolution encounter.

A bendix disengages prematurely due to either one cylinder having too much compression (no, I have no idea why that is but it happens) OR the underside of the flywheel teeth have become worn at an upward angle. The bendix gear won't tolerate anything less than a ring gear in factory condition (or close to it).

Do not consider replacing that starter solenoid with anything less than what belongs there. You would be inviting trouble!

Any dealership should have the ball and socket set. The battery? I have no idea what a 24,27, or 31 battery is, sorry.

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,

I'll try and explain about batteries.

The numbers that I used in my reply refer to Group Numbers. Normally, but not always, the higher the number the more cranking amps a battery has and it also usually increases the battery size. Batteries are usually rated in CCA, which is Cold Cranking Amps. They are also rated in MCA which is Marine Cranking Amps. And on the same battery the MCA is higher the the CCA. Why I don't know. So therefore the higher the group number, 24, 27, 31, means that usually you get a battery that has more cranking amps and also is heavier and bigger in size. But again I say not always. I've seen Group 24 batteries with higher CCA than Group 27, but these are usually special batteries that have more plates in them. And since my deep cycle batteries for my trolling motor are Group 27, and last me all day without any problem, I'm getting a Group 27 for my starting battery.

Since everything at least electronic, livewell, bilge pump as well as starting the motor runs off your starting battery I feel the Group 27 would be a better choice.


How do I check and make sure that the engines charging system is operational? How do I test that?


In one of the previous post I put in my compression results. Are they okay and do I need to worry about them since they are only slightly under 100?


Again thanks for all the input and advise.


Foreman 33

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,

Here is a link with info on the batteries that I was talking about. Deka is actually the battery that I'm getting, a Group 27. A Marine Master Starting Battery.


http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/0194.pdf


This site shows CCA & MCA for different Group Batteries as well as dimensions of each battery.


Foreman33

 

[foreman33]

Re: 1989 150GT Johnson

Joe,

I tried to edit the previous post but somehow screwed it up, so I'm just going to add another post.

Here are a couple more links about battery info. These 3 links should answer most battery questions.


http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/0273.pdf


http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/1081.pdf


Anyone reading this post I would suggest they bookmark these links and then when they have a question about batteries they can just click on the link and they will find answers to battery questions.


Foreman33 The Battery Man