1989 225 txced hard starting cold

[Teapot]

Hello everyone

I have a 89 Johnson 225 txced with VRO and it is the hardest engine i have ever had to start cold. Untill today i have sent up to an hour trying to get it to start thinking the engine was flooding cause the plugs were wet. Today buddy and I were testing it out to see if we could diagnose it. We pulled the plugs and tested each one for spark and they were all sparkless. So now i am thinking it is the kill switch , neutral switch , or the Key switch has a short or is croded to not to allow contact. When the engine does fire after a long period of trying it starts right up and runs perfect after it warms up . I am sure if i spent the time trying to get it to fire today it would. Thinking all the previous times it was this lack of spark keeping it f rom firing eight up. the history of the engine is i got it about 3 months ago off ebay

Any input is welcomed


Teapot

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

unplug the big red harness plug, now jump the starter solenoid, you should have spark. if so you have one of three things. short in harness, bad ignition switch, or bad kill switch. if the motor starts with the harness unplugged, you will have to flood it or pull the spark plug wires to kill it.

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Thanks Tashasdaddy

I unplugged the big red plug and checked all cylinders for spark. I now have spark on the middle cylinder of each bank so cylinder 3 and 4 now spark. Cylinders 1 ,2 ,5 and 6 do not spark. ideas suggestions? last sunday i had it fired up after about 45 mins of fiddling with it and it ran all day no problem.

Alll suggestions welcomed

Teapot

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Sounds like power pack but don't throw parts at it, get the factory service book and work through the troubleshooting section, its very logical.
www.outboardbooks.com

Things to check in the meanwhile, just to eliminate them,

is it turning over fast enough to produce spark?
I think it needs to be at 300rpm.

Are the coil grounds clean, remove a coil and check for corrosion where it mounts, turn the coil over in your hands and look for cracks.
Check sparkplug wires, try swapping wires and see if the problem moves with the coil/wires.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

check here http://www.boatpartstore.com/page35.asp

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Thanks for the input fellas

I have the Johnson Service manual for this engine. The Manual states " If the tester shows good ooutput on at least one cylinder go to step 4 " (tester is a spark tester) and step 4 is charge coil test i am more frustrated then ever now


thanks Teapot

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

1- How are you checking spark?

2- What spark plugs are you using?

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

I borrowed a spark tester

and ther are champion plugs


Teapot

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

You will need to have all of the plugs out and grounded, and a fully charged battery with good cables and solid connections; then check for a sharp blue spark at 7/16.

The motor has a system called QuikStart that should advance the timing automatically for a cold start. If you have the warm up lever raised and the key pushed in to activate the primer solenoid, the engine should fire.

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

See thats just it there is only spark on 2 cylinders 3 and 4 any input is welcomed


Teapot

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

power pack or timing pickup.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Replacing the powerpack is not that hard if you are careful about where the wires go. http://cdielectronics.com/InstallSheet/113-4037.pdf

With four holes not firing, that is the most likely problem, but follow the troubleshooting guide in the CDI installation instructions before ordering.

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Thanks fellas for the ideas and suggestions

This is what i have tested so far

Check the stator resistance. You should read approximately 1000 ohms from the brown wire to the brown/yellow wires and 100 ohms from the orange to orange/black. 852 on brown and brown / yellow and orange and orange / black tested at 93 ohms at 55 degrees

i do not have a DVA tester or know what it is


the manual suggested a stator resistance check but in a different way

Calibrate ohmmeter on low ohms scale. Connect one ohmmeter lead to stator yellow lead and the other ohmmeter lead to the yellow / grey lead.
0.17 + or - .05 ohms i got a reading of .05


also

Disconnect both ohmmeter leads and calibrate ohmmeter on high ohms scale. Connect one ohmeter lead to clean engine ground and the other ohmmeter lead alternatley to both stator leads.

Ohmmeter should show a very high reading

if ohmmeter shows a low reading, stator or its leads are grounded and should be repaired or replaced


i got no reading from this test ?

I have the Powerpack infront of me had to remove it to test the stator
any test i can do on the power pack with a ohmmeter?

i have read KB_85_V20 posts one thing after another and really feel for the guy hoping i am not a repeat

I did notice some melting on the stator and thing it is most likely the problem

would like to rule out all possible coulprets and what would cause the stator to melt? rectifier? timer base? powerpack?

any input suggestions welcomed

Teapot

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Any stray voltage can damage the stator; that often comes through a bad rectifier if the diode wires inside the potting fuse and allow the battery voltage to reach the stator.

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Thanks again fellas for the input

I did some more testing today with the ohm meter and here are the results

The manual states

Attach ohmmeter red lead to port timer base connector , terminal "D." Attach meter black lead to starboard timer base connector , terminal "D."

each connector looks like ( .:.) with the one on top being D
and should have a reading of 230 +- 30 ohms
i got a reading of 1366 not sure what that means

thanks

Teapot

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

try unplugging/disconnecting your rectifier and see if anything changes..make sure to insulate the ends of the wires so it doesn't short out.
Here is a great troubleshooting guide from CDI
http://www.cdielectronics.com/downl... Power Pack Engines (Without Quick-Start).pdf
you can google DVA adapter and order one for around $35..and use it with a multi meter, which you already have, the guide tells you what wires to test and how. this will determine if it is Power Pack or stator or coils..yours sounds like a power pack to me..does it have one power pack or 2 ???

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

..........
Attach ohmmeter red lead to port timer base connector , terminal "D." Attach meter black lead to starboard timer base connector , terminal "D."

each connector looks like ( .:.) with the one on top being D
and should have a reading of 230 +- 30 ohms
i got a reading of 1366 not sure what that means

thanks

Teapot

I believe that the position for the test is the bottom center not top in your (.:.) at any rate the wires will be black & white and solid white for D.

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

Thanks everyone for your input

I was working for a few weeks and am no in fix boat mode again
Buddy talked me into buying new timer base , stator , rectifier , power pack ,
and all new coils . Everything is installed according to the manual i have and it is firing on 5 cylinders number 1 is dead i switched the power pack lead to 1 coil and it fired so i am at a loss on how to proceed atm.

The color code was different on the cdi parts that i bought only on the yellow leads from the stator and rectifier just yellow on the cdi parts and the ones ithat were on it were yellow and yello/grey

but it is firing on 5 cylinders cold now so YAY

any input is welcomed

Teapot

 

[Teapot]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

i still have to do a link and sync maybe that is it i dunno kinda of bumded out and kinda hey were close

Teapot

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1989 225 txced hard starting cold

ahhh...but the link and sync will not make the engine run right, its still an ignition prob.

Try swapping the dead coil with one that is firing and see if the problem follows the dead coil. The coil grounds have to be really cleaned up with sandpaper or a file to shiny base metal.
Check the plug from the power pack to the coil, clean the pins, use elec cleaner spray from napa and dialectric grease to seal it up.

A DVA adapter is just a diode, a capacitor and a 1 mil ohm resister, very simple to make and handy for sorting out problems but not absolutely necessary. Troubleshooting and swapping parts around will work most times.

If there was some melting of the stator its on its way out, I don't blame you for changing out all those parts, dependability is everything.
You ought to consider the water pump , rebuild carbs and change gear oil with new oil drain seals if that hasn't been done yet.
New fuel filter and water seperator isn't a bad idea either.
Remove prop, clean the shaft, look for fishing line, regrease and reinstall.
Decarb engine when you get it sorted out with seafoam.
Should be good to go.