1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

[Beer Float]

Hello,I just took my boat out this weekend a 1989 23'Omc 351 king cobra for the first time this year due to high water at resivoir,anyway after I let the boat get to normal operating temp. and cruised for awhile I increased the speed a tad bit about half throttle to be exact seemed to be running fine and out of the blue the engine just seemed to lock up and it died instantly no hesitation whatsoever,we tried to fire it back up but all that happened is a click the crank pulley didnt want to rotate so after a while I tried to raise and lower the outdrive didnt make a whole lot of difference but finally it did start but would die almost immedietlly it acted like something was holding the engine from starting like siezed berrings on a engine component like water pump ect. I am now thinking it is a big possibility the u-joints are wore out, I remember in earlier years after shutting engine down and trying to restart and getting a click then when I raised the lower unit and lowered it again it would then start and no more problems until now. After towing it back to the trailer and getting it home I put the ears on it and fired the motor started right away bot sounded kindove hesitant ecspecially in deexcelaration it would often die then when I started it and left it to idle for awhile I heard it coming and going a knoking sound that seemed to be coming from the upper part of the outdrive I placed my hands on it to feel the vibration,THE ENGINE WAS IN NEUTRAL AT THIS TIME ? does this make since for u-joints? also on a Omc king cobra outdrive like I have has a cover on the top that reveales the water pump shaft USER P.V mentioned this somewhere on this site he said you could see the gears and if the oil was at the correct level well I took my cover off and gears didnt look bad but absolutelly no oil? what is the deal with this? I thought you were suppose to take the vent screw out of the lower unit and put the fluid in the bottom screw hole and squeeze oile in until it comes out of the vent hole then it is full isnt it? is there a different resivoir in this outdrive? there was no water in this area so it dosnt leak. So I guess what I am trying to figure out here is does this sound like a u-joint problem? does this water pump shaft in the outdrive spin when the throttle is in neutral I would guess so but not sure and should I have seen fluid under this top cover there are berrings in there? and if so how to fill it there are four 3/8 bolts holdin the cover on. <br />Thank you and any help would greatly be appriciated.<br />P.S. how hard is it to remove this outdrive? I have some mechanical expirience,Just the six bolts and the two hydralic arms or?

 

[davidedgar]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Yes, the U-joints and the water pump still "spin" while the engine is in neutral(that's how the engine is supplied with water for coolant). The sound you describe could be U-joints or could be "gimbal" bearing. To check both you need to pull the sterndrive off the boat. No big deal, just heavy is all (2 man job).

 

[dick]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Did you or someone change the drive oil? I read in your post that you thought you filled the drive from the bottom hole , this is a big NO NO with cobra drives. They must be filled at the vent screw that is mid way up on the drive. You drain it at the bottom then you install that screw and fill from the mid hole till the oil is at the scribed line on the dip stick on the top of the drive . That noise maybe the bearings and gears locking up.

 

[Lou C]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Whoa, something really wrong here, you took off that top cover where the dipstick for the drive is and there was no oil in there, it should be full of gear oil!! When you fill a Cobra, you take out the very top plug on the top cover (dipstick plug) and rest it in the threads. You replace the bottom most plug. You fill from the middle plug (it is on the lower unit, but just above the caviatation plate, near the front anode. You fill until it is full on the dipstick, then screw the dipstick back in. It is best to let it sit a while, crank the motor over (on the hose to protect the impeller) but don't start it. Then check again. You want to make sure that there are no air bubble in the drive, that would result in the oil level being too low. If the gears looked good you may get lucky. Get an OMC manual, fill it up, and try it again.

 

[dick]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

I forgot to say that the reason the drive is filled this way is you wiil trap air in the shift shaft cavity if it is filled from the bottom and after a short time the oil level will fall leaving the top end of the drive without and lube.

 

[sea wolf]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

how come u didn't check the gear lube before u took it out? yer lucky if u didn't trash it. repair shops love guys like u.

 

[P.V.]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

If no oil was in the upper upon inspection, the ? is why?? Did someone not fill it correctly? Or did it go somewhere??? In either case, the upper will need to be torn down and inspected! The total cost will be determined by the extent of total damage! I'm doing one now just like Beer Float's. Approz $1300.00 to rebuild verses buying a "reman" for $2600.00 or more from the factory.

 

[Beer Float]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Thanks everyone for the replies! Yes I believe I filled the unit incorrectly I just filled it enough to where the gear oil would seap out of the vent hole. oooops didnt even know of the dipstick. I have been doing it this way for 2 years also and no noise until now. I inspected the gears and they didnt look worn or anything maybe I'll get luckey replace berrings and hope for the best but I still think my most serious problem is in the u-joints sounds like something turning and hitting something. But thanks very much for informing me on this lower unit oil issue.Guess I should have bought a manual long ago.I will pull and inspect the top half and try it out. Thanks guys

 

[Lou C]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Pretty amazing that it did not blow up sooner, those things hold like 64 oz or so of gear oil--GET A MANUAL!!!!

 

[Beer Float]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

I now have the out drive off the boat,simple job!<br />well the u-joints dont seem to be bad but I am going to change them anyway. I think the real problem is the upper berring, since there was not enough fluid in there.The gears seem fine but berrings are shot. There was another problem I spoted also when I pulled the lower unit loose water came out of it and there wasa little water in the upper rubber below where the u-joints are and the gimble berring seems to be shot how to change the gimble? anyone know? I think I'll tear it down a bit and check the upper berrings a little closer to make sure I find my problem. Thanks for your help everyone

 

[tylerin]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Changing the bellows is simple, put it back on how it came off. Put the hose clamp worm screw at 2.00(very important) I believe, but check your manuel. Also I think the kings hold around 100oz again check book. You'll need a puller to pull gimbel bearing out and don't forget the seal behind it. Good idea to change u-joints now while you have it apart

 

[Beer Float]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

hello again I got the lower unit tore down and found a horribleberring on the pinion shaft the upper berring is missing a roller and the cage is broke and bent so I guess I will change the berrings, u-joints,gimble berring,bellow and gasket, dontknowif the bellow is ripped though but will change it and the gasket. Then I will fill it to the correct level this time! Does anyone know where I can get these parts possibly by the weekend? whoships within 24hrs?

 

[tylerin]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Beer Float, Where did the roller go? Just lost in the drive somewhere? Slow down just little and take youre time. Make sure you don't do anything w/out a manual!! Parts can be found on the internet Search..omc sterndrive parts. I'm not sure what bearing you lost but some requires precise shimming. You've run this drive low on gear oil for two years. Buy a manual, do it right, or let someone else do it. Alot of shimming on the kings to get it right and w/out a manual you're SOL. Good luck

 

[Lou C]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

I agree this is really not a DIY job,you need someone who has done it many times and has all the special OMC tools to do it. Don't waste your money, do it right the first time. Challenge will be finding someone who really knows Cobras. Looking at my OMC shop manual, all I will do on the drive is the water pump impeller and the oil change, the rest I leave to the experts!

 

[Beer Float]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

I have the upper lower unit torn down and the shafts all dissassembled. Sorry guys I would have to say this rebuild is very easy compared to some thing I have done you just have to know your berrings and gears I have done alot of ring and pinion work though in autos and machinery gear cases. I did however purchase a manual of coarse for reassembly. and all the parts needed. The only thing I would like to know "which I'm sure when I get the manual it will probably say" but does anyone know how to remove the gimble berring? With some kind of slide hammer or what? Or a puller that is the only thing that looks a little tricky to me.

 

[tylerin]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Yes, pull the gimble with slide hammer puller. There's a seal behind it. I don't believe it comes in that $130.00 kit. Like I said before you have to shim these properly. (requiring special tools) and shims. I'm not exactly sure what you've taken apart.

 

[P.V.]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Well, there is no way you can rebuild that upper "correctly" if you don't have the shimming tools to do so!! Rolling torque and backlash are one thing, but if you don't have the tools, you cannot locate the gears/bearings correctly!! Same with seals, too! I'm doing a 4.3 Cobra upper today (and tomorrow) and it's fairly time comsuming and I have the tools!! Having said that, I have alot of customers who purchase gears from me (they don't have the tools either) and I often wonder just how long 'till "the ghost gives up the ship", sometimes sooner than later, sometimes not!!! But it's alot of dollars to take a chance on "not getting it right"!

 

[Beer Float]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Even more dollars on trusting a yahoo around here to do it right too belive me I have taken my thing to other individuals around here and I AM DONE ! It doesnt seem like anyone around here knows anymore about this stuff than what I do<br />I had front ring and pinion problems in my Jeep<br />I have had it in the shop 3 times and rebuilt it once myself the people at the shop deffinettly did not do the job right because after a week of it making noise after they got done with it I pulled it apart to find bad berring races that should have been replaced and were not. I keep telling the mech. that the diff case is warped but he wont listen wants to keep charging me to rebuild which does absolutely no good.diff case got so hot it blew out a tire but I cant get that through there thick skulls. So I guess what I am saying is that sometimes the person that owns the boat cares about it more than any mechanic will.<br />some just try to do the job as fast as they can and dont care how the job is done. I guess what I am trying to say is if you want anything done right do it yourself! or if you dont know how learn! My faimly owns a machine shop and we deal with shimming berrings all the time preload, endplay, ect. so you cant tell me this is any different that any other gearcases all have to be adjusted to certain tolarences I have rebuilt plenty of T-5 trans. 5-speed and there is plenty of shimming to do in there also would you guys attempt to rebuild T-5? cause if not it is very easy to me done it very many times. Doing gearcases before though has made it alot easier for me. Thanks everyone for your help

 

[metwrench]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

I agree with the Others also beerfloat, Its not a DIY Job, However !!!! If you are going to tackle this Fish, Get a Book !!! You will need to set Backlash and shims Like someone else Suggested. Good Luck, let us all know how you make out

 

[Beer Float]

Re: 1989 351 Omc King Cobra / possible U-joint failure or?

Book is on its way all . Thank you everyone