1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

[section8]

hey guys. i was wondering if i could get some advice on removing the oil injection system on my motor. dont trust it anymore and its doin weird stuff. i would rather just pre-mix and was wondering if anyone knows the correct procedure what with the low oil alarm on the pump. do i just plug the line from the pump to the fuel line? also, whats wrong with running motor without thermostats. i get such a good stream without em! Thanx all

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

hey guys. i was wondering if i could get some advice on removing the oil injection system on my motor. dont trust it anymore and its doin weird stuff. i would rather just pre-mix and was wondering if anyone knows the correct procedure what with the low oil alarm on the pump. do i just plug the line from the pump to the fuel line? also, whats wrong with running motor without thermostats. i get such a good stream without em! Thanx all

You don't need the therms in warmer climates. If you're water temp is 65 degrees or better you can run without them. If it gets below that and you forget to warm it up really well then you risk cold seizing the engine.

For the oil pump... don't unless the crank gear is the problem. Just replace the pump and bearing. If you still want to, then get the kit. Pro Marine sells them and you might even find one in the iBoats parts store.

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

I respectfully disagree with sschefer on the T-stats. They help to get the engine up to operating temperature quickly on start up, preventing cold seize when you throttle up.

The telltale is entirely fed by water that goes through the t-stats. On start up, when the tell-tale starts it's warm enough for a hole shot. You need a pressure gauge to realistically keep track of your cooling system.

my 02
John

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

I respectfully disagree with sschefer on the T-stats. They help to get the engine up to operating temperature quickly on start up, preventing cold seize when you throttle up.

The telltale is entirely fed by water that goes through the t-stats. On start up, when the tell-tale starts it's warm enough for a hole shot. You need a pressure gauge to realistically keep track of your cooling system.

my 02
John

I understand your disagreement and respect it. I've found that my 150 acts a lot nicer in long no wake zones on 90-100 deg summer days with just 1/8" id washers instead of therms. During the winter I put the 143deg therms back in. I guess it might just be better to run the 120 therms in the summer.

 

[section8]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

well i was on the lake this weekend and the boat got funny. it stalled and thats rare and as it did something kept ticking after then i turned the key off. after looking at it for a few minutes i started it up. hard start with throttle up but it started and ran. the telltale was weak and the engine felt HOT! i pulled the one stat and it was closed. so we went ashore and removed the other once cooled. good strong stream now. this was a little while after getting new gas. then there was air in the oil tube that brings the oil after the pump to the gas line. last time i had air in there was when i replaced all tubes. to get the air out i needed to pull the link from the carbs to the pump and rotate to full oil while idleing. this worked before but this time it kept dripping slow and wouldnt work so i premixed in the tank. there was alot of smoke before for a while before it stalled but i figured it was cuz i was trolling. i just ran it in the yard and it isnt idleing smoothly. it idles low then just speeds up for a second then goes low then fast. there was lots of oil in the carb cover when i pulled it off. looked like it coulda been 50/50 oil gas. this not holding idle thing makes me think bad gas but the excessive oil is confusing and i dont like the fact that replacing the oil pump is like waiting for the next opportunity for it to kill my engine where as premix will always be 50:1. the lower unit had water blended in with the oil and i found it was getting in under the water pump. replaced it now theres no water but i had some metal flakes in there. could lower unit damage be making idle issues and still move the boat fine????? oh its so confusing! any thoughts r appreciated and thanks for your replies so far. you are great people!

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

Yes, it takes power to make chips in the LU. By running it before maintenance, you are probably trashing it.

If you suspect that one side overheated, I'd run a compression test before I did anything else, just to rule out piston and bore damage.

It wouldn't be worth replacing the oil pump on a 21 year old engine. I'd just install the block off kit and pre-mix. I like the oil pump system, I just don't like it well enough to part with hundreds at a time when there's a cheap alternative.

Excessive oil in spurts would make it act pretty goofy, so hopefully that's the problem.

hope it helps
John

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

sschefer,
I hate the way mine acts at no wake. I might try some 120 t-stats. I have to think on it a bit, though. It's a steel bore engine.

John

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

well i was on the lake this weekend and the boat got funny. it stalled and thats rare and as it did something kept ticking after then i turned the key off. after looking at it for a few minutes i started it up. hard start with throttle up but it started and ran. the telltale was weak and the engine felt HOT! i pulled the one stat and it was closed. so we went ashore and removed the other once cooled. good strong stream now. this was a little while after getting new gas. then there was air in the oil tube that brings the oil after the pump to the gas line. last time i had air in there was when i replaced all tubes. to get the air out i needed to pull the link from the carbs to the pump and rotate to full oil while idleing. this worked before but this time it kept dripping slow and wouldnt work so i premixed in the tank. there was alot of smoke before for a while before it stalled but i figured it was cuz i was trolling. i just ran it in the yard and it isnt idleing smoothly. it idles low then just speeds up for a second then goes low then fast. there was lots of oil in the carb cover when i pulled it off. looked like it coulda been 50/50 oil gas. this not holding idle thing makes me think bad gas but the excessive oil is confusing and i dont like the fact that replacing the oil pump is like waiting for the next opportunity for it to kill my engine where as premix will always be 50:1. the lower unit had water blended in with the oil and i found it was getting in under the water pump. replaced it now theres no water but i had some metal flakes in there. could lower unit damage be making idle issues and still move the boat fine????? oh its so confusing! any thoughts r appreciated and thanks for your replies so far. you are great people!

Bleed the oil pump by loosening the small bolt that holds the banjo fitting to the top of the pump. Let the oil run until all the air is outbetween the tank and the pump. That's where your air lock is.

That ticking sound could well be from someone bypassing the alarm circuit incorrectly. I've removed my oil system and the alarm module. I put power on the horn with the purple at the motor and if the temp switch closes it completes the circuit and the horn sounds. At about 175 it will start to tick. Now I'm not saying that's what your tick is for sure but it's a possibility.

If that's not it and it was ticking after you shut it down then it was really really hot because aluminum doesn't normall tick, it dissapates heat too rapidly.

All in all I'd say it's time to set back and regroup. Get a manual and go through everthing by the book. I'm not saying tear it down, just check everything that's done in a normal full service. If you don't do it now, you may not get a second opportunity.

 

[Dukedog]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

I understand your disagreement and respect it. I've found that my 150 acts a lot nicer in long no wake zones on 90-100 deg summer days with just 1/8" id washers instead of therms. During the winter I put the 143deg therms back in. I guess it might just be better to run the 120 therms in the summer.

Huge difference in "no stats' and "restrictor washers". Ya gotta have something in there to slow tha water flow so it can do its job in getting up to temp and removing excess heat...................Any motor needs one or tha other.

 

[section8]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

thanx a bunch guys. the ticking wasnt metal like turning a car off and hearing ticks under it. it was cyclical. like gear teeth turning against something. but heres the new info. bypassed the oil pump, premixed. compression good. good spark. lotsa smoke and it wont idle steady. up and down. it idled steady for a while yesterday testing it on the lake(brought a 10 hp 1955 johnson for backup, it purrrrrs)id say an hour or so trolling to make sure then the idle fluctuated again. its good with the throttle/advance lever up but when i put it back down it starts gettin crazy. i took the carb cover off in the yard a minute ago and theres mint milk colored stuff dribblin out. i cleaned it and sprayed tons o sea foam in and ran it for a bit. smoky and shaky idle still. shut it off and right when i shut it off that mint mylanta colored stuff dribbled out the throats again. i now im lost. is it time to see the mechanic. could the timing have gone off. it purrs along then drops then back to purr then drops. arrrrgh! so frustating and expensive. thanx for the help. without you guys i wouldnt be boating cuz the cost would be to much without your help. id have a rowboat

 

[section8]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

oh, and the bleed bolt just let the oil out of the bolt. it didnt let air out of the tube. it seems to pump the oil out insted of the air.

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

thanx a bunch guys. the ticking wasnt metal like turning a car off and hearing ticks under it. it was cyclical. like gear teeth turning against something. but heres the new info. bypassed the oil pump, premixed. compression good. good spark. lotsa smoke and it wont idle steady. up and down. it idled steady for a while yesterday testing it on the lake(brought a 10 hp 1955 johnson for backup, it purrrrrs)id say an hour or so trolling to make sure then the idle fluctuated again. its good with the throttle/advance lever up but when i put it back down it starts gettin crazy. i took the carb cover off in the yard a minute ago and theres mint milk colored stuff dribblin out. i cleaned it and sprayed tons o sea foam in and ran it for a bit. smoky and shaky idle still. shut it off and right when i shut it off that mint mylanta colored stuff dribbled out the throats again. i now im lost. is it time to see the mechanic. could the timing have gone off. it purrs along then drops then back to purr then drops. arrrrgh! so frustating and expensive. thanx for the help. without you guys i wouldnt be boating cuz the cost would be to much without your help. id have a rowboat

Sounds like the idle stabilizer/advance module may be cycling on you. Try disconnecting it and set the idle where you want it. If that goes well, set your WOT timing to 23 degrees and place the idle stabilizer gently into the chit can.

hope it helps
John

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

shut it off and right when i shut it off that mint mylanta colored stuff dribbled out the throats again.

Which carb as it sounds as if you have a blown head gasket or broken reed, if its all of them you likely have water in fuel or oil tank.

Huge difference in "no stats' and "restrictor washers"

100% agree Ddog but usually its a 3/8 id washer.. never tried a 1/8

 

[Dukedog]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

100% agree Ddog but usually its a 3/8 id washer.. never tried a 1/8

3/8 usually tha norm. 1/8 usually with "hot rod" coolin' system and one piece adapter...........D

Oh yeah, Where's my "Boat" pictures?

 

[sschefer]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

3/8 usually tha norm. 1/8 usually with "hot rod" coolin' system and one piece adapter...........D

Oh yeah, Where's my "Boat" pictures?

Yes, that is correct.. adapter is a one piece thats plugged and re-drilled. Runs 130 WOT @ 10lbs and warms up nicely with 1-2lbs at idle. Never gets above 150 in the no-wakes now. Was hitting 175.

Hard on the water pump, I have to drill another hole and run a piece of 1/8" copper tube to spray on the top of it.

1/8 or 3/16 washers depending on the motor. You don't know until you try it. 3/16 were o.k., I like the 1/8 better.

 

[section8]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

thanx alot. you guys are too good to me. i thought about the idle module and was hoping not cuz i thought it would just be a replacement of an expensive part. i didnt know i could just remove it though. i havent gotten to the point of knowing how to advance timing 23 deg at wot. maybe ill check for a used module. i also suspected water in gas cuz i just got gas from a marina that was having pump problems. dont usually get marina gas and probly wont again(rare, i know)gas and water dont mix so sounds like recipe for disaster plus theres always a 16 yo kid working so i fear getting diesel or who knows what else. if i remove the carbs will i see broken reeds or do i need to go deeper. i re-did the carbs over a month ago and everything looked good beyond them. it purred after that.im gonna siphon tomorrow and see whats in the gas tank. just replaced the head gaskets, water jacket gaskets, exhaust divider gaskets, carbs, water pump, poppet. sheesh. you think id be good by now. compression is good so im doubting head gaskets plus theyre new. disconnected the oil pump by just running the tube from it to a bottle and replacing the t gas line with a straight peice. just pour the oil back into reservoir after a day out. cheap and easy. no alarm issue. i used 1\4 id tube for the oil and 3 feet of it was full from a few minutes idleing in the yard so i think i was right about it over oiling! anyway thanx and again, is it enough to look at the reeds through taking the carbs off?????? THANX

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

thanx alot. you guys are too good to me. i thought about the idle module and was hoping not cuz i thought it would just be a replacement of an expensive part. i didnt know i could just remove it though. i havent gotten to the point of knowing how to advance timing 23 deg at wot. maybe ill check for a used module. i also suspected water in gas cuz i just got gas from a marina that was having pump problems. dont usually get marina gas and probly wont again(rare, i know)gas and water dont mix so sounds like recipe for disaster plus theres always a 16 yo kid working so i fear getting diesel or who knows what else. if i remove the carbs will i see broken reeds or do i need to go deeper. i re-did the carbs over a month ago and everything looked good beyond them. it purred after that.im gonna siphon tomorrow and see whats in the gas tank. just replaced the head gaskets, water jacket gaskets, exhaust divider gaskets, carbs, water pump, poppet. sheesh. you think id be good by now. compression is good so im doubting head gaskets plus theyre new. disconnected the oil pump by just running the tube from it to a bottle and replacing the t gas line with a straight peice. just pour the oil back into reservoir after a day out. cheap and easy. no alarm issue. i used 1\4 id tube for the oil and 3 feet of it was full from a few minutes idleing in the yard so i think i was right about it over oiling! anyway thanx and again, is it enough to look at the reeds through taking the carbs off?????? THANX

Once you have the carbs off, you're about 10 bolts and 1 gasket from having the entire reed plate assembly off for inspection. Then, and only then can you really see the condition of the reeds.

The reason Mercury doesn't stock the advance module is that it is unneeded. The other thing about it is if it fails shorted at idle, it'll make the engine race a little. If it fails shorted at WOT, it'll throw parts at ya. I would tear it off and throw it away.

If you've gone through the carbs, and haven't done a link n sync, you aren't done yet. One of the parts of that procedure is WOT timing. Set that at 23 degrees where your spec is probably 19 degrees. Other than that, it's all the same.

here comes the speech. It's in the book.

hope it helps
john

 

[section8]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

i have the seloc book and havent gotten to getting a merc manual. i dont know how to use a timing light. do i need one. i also dont have a dial gauge. do i need one. i only replaced the gaskets in the carbs and soaked the jets and needles/seats in carb cleaner and set all the floats the same. they looked brand new as i think the motor was rebuilt before i got it cuz theres crosshatch marks in the cyls. do they have them in new engines or just honed/rebuilts? thanks john. your the best. told a guy at work that i borrowed a 1955 10hp johnson for backup and he gave me a 1956 10hp johnny the next day. needs work though but pretty sweet. hasnt been used in 15 years or so but ill wait til the merc is workin well before workin on that. Thanx again!!!! Erik

 

[section8]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

maybe a dumb question but can i pull the reed plate without removing the carbs like theyre 1 unit. im not looking at the motor as its late and im tired and its dark yadda yadda. but maybe i dont need to re remove the carbs???!!!!

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1989 v135 blackmax removing oil injection advice?!

Yes, you need a timing light. The timing mark is held in place by 1 screw, so you need a depth gauge of some kind to check it against the .462 timing mark on the flywheel. Then the other adjustments made with a timing light will be valid.

I punched the guts out of an old spark plug, welded on a mounting tab, and ty-rap a cheap digital caliper to it so the depth gauge part of the instrument goes into the bore. Then I extend the gauge, rotate the engine past tdc, hit the zero button, rotate 1/2 turn, extend the gauge to about .500, and rotate the engine till it goes to .462. Check the timing pointer, reposition if needed, and proceed.

The linkage and timing adjustments make sure everything is lined up as designed for the throttle sequence. Carb linkage adjustment is a critical part of that.

It's easiest to remove the carbs, then remove the reed plate. I think they can be removed as an assembly, but I'm not sure. While you're at it, check the routing and condition of the bleed hoses and bleed check valves.

hope it helps
John