1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

[fish2day]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

I know they are there because I had them out when I first trying to figure it out. I do not know what the # is but I will pull one tomorrow and check it. If they are not 54D's, should I buy new ones and replace them? Would the wrong size cause this problem??

 

[dazk14]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Just check what's in there.

Yes, bigger jets could cause what you have described.

 

[ctriverhouse]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Look on the electric choke for a red lever. The lever acts as a manual choke. If you have one on your model it could be half open. Motor will run pig rich. The fitting makes it easy to fog or decarb motor, no need to remove carb cover. Just reread thread and saw J_K_Bisson brough this up. Did you check on the lever?

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Look on the electric choke for a red lever. The lever acts as a manual choke. If you have one on your model it could be half open. Motor will run pig rich. The fitting makes it easy to fog or decarb motor, no need to remove carb cover. Just reread thread and saw J_K_Bisson brough this up. Did you check on the lever?

Yes, all true above, but it wouldn't idle. No way it would idle. He says it idles fine.

I would absolutely NOT buy new jets until I had thoroughly identified the carbs. You will have to get the sizes of the idle and intermediate jets, too, while you are there.

They can be read (if your eyes are any good) off the front of the jet, without taking it out of the carb.
It will be important to verify that all six carbs are identical, and if you can, try to find the casting numbers that are embossed in the black plastic carb bodies.

The carb part number is usually on a white paper sticker that is attached to the metal side plates. Those stickers usually do not survive long, after cleanings, oil, etc., so they may not be there.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Worth a mention to eliminate confusion......

The small jets on the front of the carburetor..... The top jet is the Intermediate Speed Air Bleed jet (Measures air, not fuel). - The bottom jet is the Idle Speed Air Bleed jet (Measures air, not fuel). Increasing the inside diameter size of any Air Bleed jet results in a "Leaner" mixture

The jet located in the bottom center of the float chamber is the High Speed Fuel jet (Measures fuel, not air). Increasing the inside diameter of any Fuel jet results in a "Richer" mixture.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Bump this up to see what is going on.

OP...any progress on ID'ing the jets?

 

[fish2day]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Ok, The jet sizes in my carb's are :

Intermediate - 34
Idle - 35
HS - 56D

Any advice from here would be greatly appreciated.

 

[fish2day]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Ok, The jet sizes in my carb's are :

Intermediate - 34
Idle - 35
HS - 56D

Any advice from here would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Ok, The jet sizes in my carb's are :

Intermediate - 34
Idle - 35
HS - 56D

Any advice from here would be greatly appreciated.

----------------------
In my book, on that model (J200TXEIB), my book lists the jets as:

Intermediate - 46
Idle - 42
HS - 62

What do you other fellows come up with?

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Well Joe...how goes it?

Evinrude website does not show a J200TXEI..they show a J200TXEIB. So, looking at the "B" model, he is close to the site numbers of:

Intermediate - 32
Idle - 33
HS - 54D

Is it possible that someone has over-jetted all three jets on all six carbs??!!!

And I wonder if just two sizes up, book says 54D he has 56D, could cause such a rich condition.

I am starting to think something else. As his timer base rotates around toward WOT, could he have an intermittent in one of the timer base leads to the pack that makes him drop cylinders, but only at that magical 2-2.5k range and above?

I cannot logically make it work, tho. Four pins in each connector, Blue, purple, and green (one for each cylinder) and then depending on the side, a white one, and a black one. But I swear...I think that if you open up either the white one OR the black one, all spark dies.
I am just not sure.

So, I hate to say it, but you need to get out your timing light and see if you are dropping spark to one or more cyls as you throttle up.
Put the timing light on each plug wire and look into it to see if dead, or intermittent.
I can tell you how to do it on muffs, (without having to take it to the lake), but it has to be running of course.


EDIT:
Aw heck...no....I just re-read and see that when the silencer is OFF, he runs OK. Skip all that stuff about dropping spark....sorry.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Well here is something else to check.

Alot of times, people will try to convert a 200 to a 225 by changing carbs. They mistakenly only change the black carb bodies.
To do that conversion, you must change both the carb bodies AND the throttle bodies. If you don't, you will have a "step" in throttle bore size which messes up the air flow (turbulence).

Look in the front of the carbs, and follow the curvature of the black plastic throat, and as it passes over to the metal of the throttle plate, make sure there is no 90* step..say maybe about 1/4 of an inch. Maybe a bit less. Any step there is wrong.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Evinrude website does not show a J200TXEI..they show a J200TXEIB

Yes, I know that the Evinrude sites doesn't show the just the model of J200TXEI. I had just neglected to add the "B" on there. The OMC parts Manual that I have does list all of the models including the J200TXEIB model, and it is this model that I got those jet sizes from. I edited my previous reply to include the "B" on the model number.

I'll see what I can find that might have the sizes that "fish2day" speaks of.

I think I might just start drinking again!

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

I scanned very quickly the years prior, and the years after, both the 200 and the 225, and I could not find anything with that combination of jets.
I wonder why the hard copy manual you have is so different from the website???

Also notice that his sizes are two sizes larger than the website stated sizes. All three two sizes bigger???!!!!

I also looked at the PN for a 56D jet (318684), and did a "where used". It shows 92 and 93 models of the 225, about 51 of them...for what it is worth.

That's why I got off on the carb to throttle plate mis-match possibility.

Start drinking? Hey great idea! Beer thirty!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

The throttle body diameter difference had escaped me somehow.... never entered my mind BUT that's a great thought. If a larger bore carburetor were attached to a smaller bore throttle body, I'm thinking that this would create a larger vaccum at that point resulting in a greater fuel flow up that HS nozzle??

I just went thru my books pertaining to all engines that incorporated the plastic carburetors..... however, due to retiring, my books only go up thru 1992. I could find no carburetor with that combination of jets either (fish2day's jets).

If there is no change in the carburetor throat to throttle body inside diameter (smaller diameter in aluminum throttle body throat), if it were me..........

If it were me, I would remove all of the jets now in the "fish2day" carburetors and install the jets I came up with as a test/experiment. The OMC book for that model states that's what belongs in those carburetors and that would be my beginning point. And I'd have the face plate securely attached before starting the engine.

That would be..... top intermediate jet 46.... lower idle jet 42.... HS jet 62

However, this arrangement would have the HS jet (62) running richer than it presently is with the HS 56 jet BUT the idle and intermediate jets would be running leaner by 7 to 10 sizes which might compenate for the HS fuel difference.

From what I've read here, using a #56 HS jet, the engine loads up with fuel when the face plate is attached. And using the #62 HS jet, in theory, would make it even worse, however this is what the OMC book calls for.

If this engine ever ran normally, I can only assume that someone has really screwed with it proper!

 

[fish2day]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Ok, I checked the carbs and they do not look larger than the throttle plates. They appear to be the right size carbs. So, being that is correct, should I go with the larger size jets: 46-42-62, or should I try the smaller which is 32-33-54?? I was researching crowley marine website and it gives the sizes of 32-33-54, but you guys know much more than I do and I would like your opinion??

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

The small side plates on those carburetors..... by any chance is there a white sticker on them with a six digit part number? Seems to me that some of those carburetors did actually have the carb part number stuck on them.

You recall the carb part number sticker thing Daselbee?

F_R, Haffiman, anyone else keeping track of this problem?

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Yep. The stickers do not last long after a few cleanings.
There might be a remnant on one of the carbs.

I saw also in scanning jets/models, that there are different jets for port/starboard applications, and one model i noticed that the top carbs had a smaller main jet than the lower carbs.

This is going to be tough.

Joe, you sure that he shouldn't go with leaner all the way around? down two sizes?

I hope you are ready for sticker shock. That jet parts bill will be about 180 bucks, all for a guess/test.


EDIT: OP, please look in the carb bores and let us know how many screws there are that attach the throttle plate to the throttle shaft. It will be 2 or 3.

If he has a 3 screw throttle plate and it is supposed to be a 200HP, then we know someone has messed with the original setup.

Also, on the stbd side of each carb, there is a metal plate. Tell us how many screws attach that plate to the side body. It will be 2, 4 or 5.

 

[clanton]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

What kind of boat?
This motor realy a 25 inch shaft motor?
Does motor have the model number on plug on rear of block?
Motor on a bracket?

 

[fish2day]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Ok, The stickers on the side of the carbs are clean with no #'s to read. There is another # stamped onto the carb body on the port side which is 422449. The throttle plates have 2 screws attaching them. The metal plate on the stbd side has 4 screws attaching it to the carb. There is a # stamped on the throttle plate which is 335216.
This is a 1985 Wellcraft 248 sportsman boat with a 200 Johnson 25in shaft, Engine Model # J200TXEIB.
I also found that I have 5 idle jets #35, and 1 idle jet #36. Intermediate are #34, and HS is 56D.

These jets are $10 each so too replace them is $180.00
It is well worth repairing but I just need advice on which way to go with the jet sizes. I feel that with all the infomation that you have given me to this point, it must be my problem, or most of my problem. Any help appreciated!!

 

[dazk14]

Re: 1991 Johnson 200hp Air Silencer help needed...

Am I reading this correctly, the side covers on the carb bodies have 4 screws, not 2 screws. If that's the case, those are later model year carbs. That would be a start.

I'll take a peak and see if the jets are in the hunt for the later carbs.