1993 175 Fast Strike

[cityjack]

Good morning all,

Went out on the boat yesterday and everything went just about fine. There is one little annoying thing that keeps showing its annoying head though. I thought because I messed with the fuel filter lines while replacing the filter I may have disturbed some junk or debris in the lines and it somehow got into the carbs. When cold the motor starts right up. Goes directly to fast idle and then it will go back down to normal idle and idles fine. Leaving the dock it accelerates fine and gets up to speed fine. Absolutely no problems. After we sit and fish or swim for a bit, 30 minutes hour or whatever, the motor starts right back up and idles great. Go to accelerate slowly and the motor will die. It will stumble and die if I try to get past the rough spot where it wants to die. Just before it dies, if I quickly move it back to idle and not in gear it will stay running and idle fine. If I put it in gear and just run very slowly it works fine. the second I try to accelerate or get going faster it will stumble or want to die. I CAN however push the throttle quickly pastt he stumble point and it will go then and then run great. Why is this happening only after sitting for a while? When I leave the dock it doesn't happen ever. Only after running for a bit and then always after sitting. Even after I get past the stumble phase it will run great.

Not sure what is going on there. Also lastly, my tach has just recently stopped working. How can I determine if its the gauge or the signal to the tach without remove and replace with another tach gauge?

Thanks as always.

Sid

 

[schematic]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

try firming up the primer ball just before accelerating. If this helps, you may have a weak fuel pump.

If that makes no difference, you may be in need of a Link and sync along with a throttle body/carb clean.

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

try firming up the primer ball just before accelerating. If this helps, you may have a weak fuel pump.

If that makes no difference, you may be in need of a Link and sync along with a throttle body/carb clean.

Why would the primer ball tip apply after sitting for awhile? Why does it work fine at the dock before leaving for the day? Is it because before I start out for the day I prime with the bulb and never after sitting for a while? What do you think about the tach not working sir?

Sid

 

[boobie]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Have you tried hitting your choke when the problem occurs ?? The tach works off of the battery charging system. You could have probs there, a broken wire or a bad tach. You'll need a service manual and the correct meters to check it out.

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Have you tried hitting your choke when the problem occurs ?? The tach works off of the battery charging system. You could have probs there, a broken wire or a bad tach. You'll need a service manual and the correct meters to check it out.

Sir, I have not tried hitting the check as it is wanting to die or stumble. I have even let it sit for about 45 secs or so after starting to maybe let it warm up after we have swam for a while. Funny thing is, it does not do this when just starting out from the doc in the morning. I do hit the primer bulb eneough to make it firm when I start out from the doc, but never touch the bulb again. Should I after starting again after swimming or fishing or sitting for a while? I never thought about that. I do have the OEM service manual. I will check for the service of a non-working tach. One more thing. What should I be reading at the batteries if the system is charging? Is my regulator/rectifier water cooled? Can you ruin the regulator rectifier by momentarily running the motor WITHOUT muffs? For like 30 seconds at idle?

Ok I just got home and have started to look at the service manual. Turning to the electrical section and wanting to see how to test the regulator/rectifier and or the tach circuit. The first test for the rectifier/regulator is to run the motor at 4500 rpm. I guess I will have to hook up another tach since mine does not work. Now I have to get an 40 amp ammeter plus a variable load tester to put across the battery. To test the tach circuit I need a CD adapter box. Is there NOT an easier way to check to see if the rectifier/regulator is the culprit or if my tach is bad? Who on earth, other than service mechanics have got all these special tools. there has GOT to be an easier way to determine if my tach is bad or if the regulator is? Can I just put my voltmeter across the batteries and check for like 13+ volts like on a car or my lawnmower to see if the charging system is getting to the battery or check a signal at the tach to see if its getting its signal from the regulator maybe?


Thank you sir.

sid

 

[schematic]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Why would the primer ball tip apply after sitting for awhile? Why does it work fine at the dock before leaving for the day? Is it because before I start out for the day I prime with the bulb and never after sitting for a while? What do you think about the tach not working sir?

Sid

I have seen several VRO/OMS pumps deliver poorly at low engine speeds.(as in taking off from a slow idle)
When you start a engine cold, idle speed is usually up which operates a sticking VRO just fine. When you are idling for a while, a sticking VRO may deliver poorly and allow fuel bowl level to drop. Accelerating can stall the fuel starved engine. Squeezing the primer would fill the bowls and prove this shortage.....

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

I have seen several VRO/OMS pumps deliver poorly at low engine speeds.(as in taking off from a slow idle)
When you start a engine cold, idle speed is usually up which operates a sticking VRO just fine. When you are idling for a while, a sticking VRO may deliver poorly and allow fuel bowl level to drop. Accelerating can stall the fuel starved engine. Squeezing the primer would fill the bowls and prove this shortage.....

Thanks for the reply. I will check the primer bulb tip. How can I tell if I have the water cooled rectifier/regulator or not?

Can I just check witha volt meter to see if the regulator is putting the correct voltage back to the battery?

thansk again

 

[clanton]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

You can check the charging somewhat, with the meter at the battery. The voltage spec at the tach wire is given in peak volts, you need peak reading meter, or an adapter for your meter to check this.

 

[clanton]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

If you are going to work on this motor your self, I would suggest a good multi meter that you trust and the DVA adapter to read the peak volts. You will also find on this site the info needed to make your own DVA adapter. Compression, fuel pressure, and vacuum gauges can come from Sears.

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

I have a good digital Fluke meter. I however do not have a DVA. I will research here how to make one. Can you please tell me how I know whether or not I have a water cooled regulator or not? My model number for the motor is J175GLETG. I really didn't even know there was a problem until I looked down yesterday as I was going along and saw that the tach was not working. Just wanting to know if my regulator is water cooled or not.

I'll look for the DVA "how to make " link now.

Thanks

 

[boobie]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

It's water cooled.

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

It's water cooled.

This OEM service manual is confusing as heck to try to troubleshoot this tach. I am still looking for a link to make a DVA for my digital Fluke. Is there any easier way other than this service manual to troubleshoot my tach/regulator/rectifier? I see where a J. reeves describes a troubleshooting sequence for NON water cooled rectifiers/regulators. Any such luck maybe for a WATER cooled one?

Sid

 

[MaPaHa]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

I've got a '96 Johnson 175GL Fast Strike on a Javelin Fish and Ski and it does the same thing. Cold start it's fine, runs great otherwise but after sitting a while it stumbles and dies on take off.

We had other troubles we've worked through: 1). leaking water from the head gasket/O-ring where we removed the heads and re-sealed them, and 2). a bad power pack that gave intermitant problems of dieing and/or stumbling at random times and not starting at all at times. Finally cought it with no spark in the shop and luckily I've got a '94 Johnson 150 on a party barge that we robbed the pack from.

I tested the power pack using the CDI spec sheet and the ohm readings were well into the mid "K" range and I think one was in the "Meg" range. I don't remember what they called for but I think it was in the "Tens" or "Hundreds" range. Bottom line is it was many hundred thousands higher than it called for. Replaced the pack and it fired right up.

These repairs got the boat back to normal except this "stumbling after sitting problem". The bulb was going flat during the time it sat and we found that pumping the bulb before starting it helped the problem. My son replaced the fuel line and bulb and he said it helped a great deal but did not cure it all the way. He said it wouldn't die but still stumbled a little. I figure it was losing its prime due to an air leak in the line causing fuel to leak back to the tank on the off cycle, but that's just my thoughts. Anyway, It's much better with the new line and if you pump the bulb it helps a bit more but not 100% fixed. I'll watch the thread and see what comes out.

BTW: Running mixed gas. The VRO has been disconnected and tank removed.

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

I've got a '96 Johnson 175GL Fast Strike on a Javelin Fish and Ski and it does the same thing. Cold start it's fine, runs great otherwise but after sitting a while it stumbles and dies on take off.

We had other troubles we've worked through: 1). leaking water from the head gasket/O-ring where we removed the heads and re-sealed them, and 2). a bad power pack that gave intermitant problems of dieing and/or stumbling at random times and not starting at all at times. Finally cought it with no spark in the shop and luckily I've got a '94 Johnson 150 on a party barge that we robbed the pack from.

I tested the power pack using the CDI spec sheet and the ohm readings were well into the mid "K" range and I think one was in the "Meg" range. I don't remember what they called for but I think it was in the "Tens" or "Hundreds" range. Bottom line is it was many hundred thousands higher than it called for. Replaced the pack and it fired right up.

These repairs got the boat back to normal except this "stumbling after sitting problem". The bulb was going flat during the time it sat and we found that pumping the bulb before starting it helped the problem. My son replaced the fuel line and bulb and he said it helped a great deal but did not cure it all the way. He said it wouldn't die but still stumbled a little. I figure it was losing its prime due to an air leak in the line causing fuel to leak back to the tank on the off cycle, but that's just my thoughts. Anyway, It's much better with the new line and if you pump the bulb it helps a bit more but not 100% fixed. I'll watch the thread and see what comes out.

BTW: Running mixed gas. The VRO has been disconnected and tank removed.

Thanks for the reply definitely. The bulb definitely looks like its seen better days too. I'll have to check the bulb trick out. It is a 1993 motor afterall and probably is the stock piece I'm sure. Its the tach thing thats got me stumped right now though. I'll keep you posted on the bulb trick too.

Have a good night.

Sid

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Here is a little easier testing....
1. Check the purple wire for voltage while the engine is running. You should see the same voltage as the battery.
2. With all wires connected and the engine running at approximately 1500 RPM, check the DVA voltage from each yellow wire to
engine ground. The two readings have to be within 2 volts of each other (i.e. if one is reading 20 volts, the other has to read
between 18 and 22 volts). If the readings are not equal, go to step 4. If they are equal, go to step 3.
3. Check the DVA voltage from the yellow wires to the red wire going to the solenoid. The two readings must be within 2 volts of each
other. If the readings are unequal, replace the rectifier/regulator. If they are equal on this step and step 1, the rectifier (or
rectifier/regulator) and battery charging portion of the stator are OK.
4. If the readings are unequal, mark across the connection between the stator and rectifier on the low side. Turn the engine off and
swap the stator leads. Crank the engine up and retest. The component that has the marked wire with the low reading is bad.
5. At 800-1000 RPM, check output on the gray wire, reading should be at least 8 volts with a DVA meter. A low reading usually
indicates a bad regulator if the system is charging the battery.

Bench test
A) Diode plate check: Test the forward diodes between the two yellow wires and the red wire just like you would on a regular
rectifier. You should get a reading one way but not the other. Check the resistance from each of the yellow wires to case ground,
you should have a high reading, typically in the M range. The red wire should not read to ground or show a very high reading, 25M
ohms or more.
B) Tachometer Circuit: Check the ohms resistance between the gray wire and engine ground. You should read approximately 10K
(10,000) ohms. Gray to red, and gray to the yellow wires should be a high reading, usually in the M range

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Here is a little easier testing....
1. Check the purple wire for voltage while the engine is running. You should see the same voltage as the battery.
2. With all wires connected and the engine running at approximately 1500 RPM, check the DVA voltage from each yellow wire to
engine ground. The two readings have to be within 2 volts of each other (i.e. if one is reading 20 volts, the other has to read
between 18 and 22 volts). If the readings are not equal, go to step 4. If they are equal, go to step 3.
3. Check the DVA voltage from the yellow wires to the red wire going to the solenoid. The two readings must be within 2 volts of each
other. If the readings are unequal, replace the rectifier/regulator. If they are equal on this step and step 1, the rectifier (or
rectifier/regulator) and battery charging portion of the stator are OK.
4. If the readings are unequal, mark across the connection between the stator and rectifier on the low side. Turn the engine off and
swap the stator leads. Crank the engine up and retest. The component that has the marked wire with the low reading is bad.
5. At 800-1000 RPM, check output on the gray wire, reading should be at least 8 volts with a DVA meter. A low reading usually
indicates a bad regulator if the system is charging the battery.

Bench test
A) Diode plate check: Test the forward diodes between the two yellow wires and the red wire just like you would on a regular
rectifier. You should get a reading one way but not the other. Check the resistance from each of the yellow wires to case ground,
you should have a high reading, typically in the M range. The red wire should not read to ground or show a very high reading, 25M
ohms or more.
B) Tachometer Circuit: Check the ohms resistance between the gray wire and engine ground. You should read approximately 10K
(10,000) ohms. Gray to red, and gray to the yellow wires should be a high reading, usually in the M range

Thank you sir for your easy troubleshooting tips. I am at work now but I will get on this as soon as I get to the house. The boat is on the trailer so I will have to do this with water running thru the muffs if thats ok and hook up another auto tach I have for setting dwell or tuning a car. Plus I'll have to ask if I can borrow a DVA adapter here from work. I was unable to find the link on here that shows how to make your own DVA.

Thanks again sir.

Sid

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Thank you sir for your easy troubleshooting tips. I am at work now but I will get on this as soon as I get to the house. The boat is on the trailer so I will have to do this with water running thru the muffs if thats ok and hook up another auto tach I have for setting dwell or tuning a car. Plus I'll have to ask if I can borrow a DVA adapter here from work. I was unable to find the link on here that shows how to make your own DVA.

Thanks again sir.

Sid

Where is a good place to get a decent reliable DVA adapter for my fluke?

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Evening sir,

I am extremely thankful for you taking the time to help me out with your easy/abbreviated check on my regulator/rectifier and or tachometer. I do however have a couple questions regarding your sequence of checks. I do not completely understand some of your instructions.

I am looking at the OEM schematic of my motor as I ask;

As you say

Step1. Are you saying check the voltage WITHOUT the DVA at the purple wire coming out of the regulator? I am assuming it is a DC voltage since I am comparing it to battery voltage?

Step2. I guess I am to check each yellow wire going into the regulator individually to grnd?

Step3. Again individually each yellow wire to the red solenoid red wire. Does it matter which lead of my meter goes to the solenoid red wire? You say if the readings for these yellow wires to red wire are equal and step1. Are you saying equal readings here and step 1 battery equals purple wire check, battery/regulator charging circuit is good or are you saying whatever I read for the yellow wires to the red wire if they are equal and are ALSO equal to the battery and purple wire, THEN the regulator and charging circuit are good. Kind of confused here.

If step four proves that the regulator/rectifier and charging circuit are good, to I just skip step4? Only do step 4 if 3 proves UNequal?

Step5. Does the gray wire go to my tach?

The regulator portion runs the tach and the rectifier changes the AC out of the stator to DC to charge the battery? So if my rectifier is working in the box and charging my battery, the regulator portion can still be bad and that could still be a bad box or at least the regulator side of the box? If the regulator is putting out at least 8 volts with the DVA on the gray wire and the rectifier is charging the battery then my tach problem is either the tach or the wiring between the gray wire where I check and the the tach somewhere?

Do all my questions make sense I hope?

I am going to tAKE A stab at this tomorrow night after work. Since my tach obviously is not working and I need to run the motor at a prescribed rpm, I will hook up my car tach that I have to set engine rpm idle on my Honda.

Thank you again sir for your help.

Sid

 

[cityjack]

Re: 1993 175 Fast Strike

Evening sir,

I am extremely thankful for you taking the time to help me out with your easy/abbreviated check on my regulator/rectifier and or tachometer. I do however have a couple questions regarding your sequence of checks. I do not completely understand some of your instructions.

I am looking at the OEM schematic of my motor as I ask;

As you say

Step1. Are you saying check the voltage WITHOUT the DVA at the purple wire coming out of the regulator? I am assuming it is a DC voltage since I am comparing it to battery voltage?

Step2. I guess I am to check each yellow wire going into the regulator individually to grnd?

Step3. Again individually each yellow wire to the red solenoid red wire. Does it matter which lead of my meter goes to the solenoid red wire? You say if the readings for these yellow wires to red wire are equal and step1. Are you saying equal readings here and step 1 battery equals purple wire check, battery/regulator charging circuit is good or are you saying whatever I read for the yellow wires to the red wire if they are equal and are ALSO equal to the battery and purple wire, THEN the regulator and charging circuit are good. Kind of confused here.

If step four proves that the regulator/rectifier and charging circuit are good, to I just skip step4? Only do step 4 if 3 proves UNequal?

Step5. Does the gray wire go to my tach?

The regulator portion runs the tach and the rectifier changes the AC out of the stator to DC to charge the battery? So if my rectifier is working in the box and charging my battery, the regulator portion can still be bad and that could still be a bad box or at least the regulator side of the box? If the regulator is putting out at least 8 volts with the DVA on the gray wire and the rectifier is charging the battery then my tach problem is either the tach or the wiring between the gray wire where I check and the the tach somewhere?

Do all my questions make sense I hope?

I am going to tAKE A stab at this tomorrow night after work. Since my tach obviously is not working and I need to run the motor at a prescribed rpm, I will hook up my car tach that I have to set engine rpm idle on my Honda.

Thank you again sir for your help.

Sid

Anybody able to clarify?

thanks again.

Sid