1993 V4 90hp Johnson Won't Turn Over

[Fed]

Seems like a ground issue somewhere, but I can't find it. I've got battery voltage at the solenoid and starter terminal when turning key?

Measuring the Voltage right at the starter motor (positive stud & motor case) will also tell you if you have any ground issues.

 

[cleve]

Measuring the Voltage right at the starter motor (positive stud & motor case) will also tell you if you have any ground issues.

Measured the voltage, as you suggested, at pos stud on starter and motor case while turning key and got battery voltage (13.1V). Also, swapped to another battery (1000 MCA deep cycle I bought new in March 2017 for trollling) and got 13.8V. This was to rule out bad batteries.

Jumped the large terminals on solenoid with battery cables and nothing happened, key off and on.

Wire brushed and sand papered the lug on the block ground wire and block (also took stud out and cleaned and re-tightened), the 3 mounting brackets on solenoid and block, the battery end lug of negative cable, and the both battery terminals/studs. Also, cleaned the 2 small wires on solenoid.

Ran battery cable from negative battery post to starter bracket to try and establish a ground, nothing.

I'm still only getting a solenoid click when turning key. If I connect battery cables directly to starter positive stud and starter bracket it won't spin with starter mounted to block. But, starter spins great on bench using exactly the same method? Was told today by a local outboard mechanic that if starter works on bench with direct power, that starter is good?

 

[Fed]

Measured the voltage, as you suggested, at pos stud on starter and motor case while turning key and got battery voltage (13.1V).

You could have stopped right there.
The fault is within the starter motor, pull it apart & fix it.

 

[cleve]

You could have stopped right there.
The fault is within the starter motor, pull it apart & fix it.

Ok, can you tell me how or point me to something on the web? I've never taken one apart.

And, can you explain why it would work on the bench but not mounted? Just curious.

 

[oldboat1]

You need to jump the starter -- not the solenoid, the starter. Positive to the stud on the starter, negative to the starter bracket. No key involved, no solenoid -- just the starter. If it fires up and cranks the engine when you attach the jumper cables, the starter is presumably good. If the starter doesn't crank the engine by jumping, the starter has an issue of some kind.

 

[Fed]

Ok, can you tell me how or point me to something on the web? I've never taken one apart.

http://boatinfo.no/lib/library.html

And, can you explain why it would work on the bench but not mounted? Just curious.

That little mystery will be revealed when you get it apart.
Right now my money is on the positive stud turning in it's enclosure & pulling on the brush leads, when you remove it to put on the bench you probably relax the tension on the wires and allow the brushes to contact the commutator again.
There is a logical process going on here due to you having 4 brushes 2 of which are independently grounded and the only common area is the positive stud brush connections.
I wouldn't be surprised if you used locknuts to slightly turn the positive stud counter clockwise then tested again it would work, you could try it as a test just ease it back a bit.

 

[cleve]

You need to jump the starter -- not the solenoid, the starter. Positive to the stud on the starter, negative to the starter bracket. No key involved, no solenoid -- just the starter. If it fires up and cranks the engine when you attach the jumper cables, the starter is presumably good. If the starter doesn't crank the engine by jumping, the starter has an issue of some kind.

I did jump the starter. Connected positive battery cable clamp to starter terminal and negative battery cable clamp to the starter bracket. Opposite ends of battery cables were connected to battery. No Key, no solenoid. And nothing happened.
Unbolted/removed starter (2 different times) and did the EXACT same thing, but with starter sitting in a benchtop vise, and it spun like new.

 

[oldboat1]

Thanks. Fed's explanation may be the answer.

 

[cleve]

http://boatinfo.no/lib/library.html


That little mystery will be revealed when you get it apart.
Right now my money is on the positive stud turning in it's enclosure & pulling on the brush leads, when you remove it to put on the bench you probably relax the tension on the wires and allow the brushes to contact the commutator again.
There is a logical process going on here due to you having 4 brushes 2 of which are independently grounded and the only common area is the positive stud brush connections.
I wouldn't be surprised if you used locknuts to slightly turn the positive stud counter clockwise then tested again it would work, you could try it as a test just ease it back a bit.

The stud was loose and wiggly in the starter case. I could lock it down and play with it some and get the starter to turn occasionally with 12 volts direct from battery.
Not knowing much about starter motor guts and fed up working on it, I dropped it off at the shop. He just called to say magnets had come loose and it was in rough shape. Recommended buying a new one, so I did. Will be here tomorrow, so maybe I'll have it running again.

 

[Fed]

Get the old one back so you can play with it.

 

[cleve]

Put the new starter on and it fired right up. Engine spun much faster too. Think maybe the starter was on the way out all along.
Thanks everyone for the help.