1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

[swist]

Just this year the above engine (400 hrs all in salt) developed an intermittent problem as follows - shifting in and out of forward is normal. Shifting into reverse is normal, but sometimes when you try to return to neutral it stays in reverse (at idle speed). You have to shift into forward and then back to neuitral to correct the problem. There is also sometime a telltale gear ticking noise in neutral as if it was very slightly engaging.<br /><br />It sounds like an adjustment more than anything - I have a regular 704 type shifter - or should I look in the engine?

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

Either a cable adjustment or you may need new cables.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

Take a peek down in front where the gearcase attaches to the midsection. You will see the shift shaft that should be a solid rod, about 1/4" in diameter.<br /><br />It is very common for the older motors to rust away part of the shift shaft and as it gets thinner, it acts like a spring and twists when trying to shift out of gear.<br /><br />It was about '93 or '94 before Yamaha changed over from carbon steel to a stainless steel shift shaft.

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

Aha. Is this the shaft that's been discussed in other topics - the one which can't be replaced from the bottom - need to pull the powerhead? (Fat chance after 13 years).

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

same shaft

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

What's this gonna cost me - I don't feel qualified to pull a corroded-bolt powerhead. And while they have it out the steering bracket is also rusted to sh*t. Should I be looking at repowering? What else is gonna go after 12 yrs?

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

Can anyone give me a even a wild guess as to what a shift shaft and steering arm replacement will cost?<br />I have some tough and expensive decisions to be made on the future of this engine.....

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

can you tell me how many bolts will break ?

 

[douglloyd]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

My 115 ETXJ 86' has never run better, Now I gotta worry about the shift shaft, Crap. Okay Rodbolt best case, Worst case I'm sure you have seen both. 10 hours 20 hours? I'm sure the part is around $15. What else do you do while you have the powerhead off?

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

"can you tell me how many bolts will break ?"<br /><br />Let's say 3 for the sake of argument? I need to find out if this is worth repairing or whether I should get an HPDI (4 stroke is too heavy).<br /><br />I will double check the shift shaft this weekend but if it's flexing enough to cause this problem it is just a matter of time before it breaks and I am hesitant to use the boat.....

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

"I'm sure the part is around $15. What else do you do while you have the powerhead off?"<br /><br />The shift shaft is well over $100. And the steering arm isn't cheap either, but I have the feeling the parts cost in this job will pale in comparison to the labor, even if no bolts break.

 

[douglloyd]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

OK so let's say it's 12 hours thats a full day and a half. $90.00/hour $1080.00 plus parts say $300.00. Would you spend $1400.00 plus tax to keep it running? What were they tinking at Yamaha to install some cheap pot metal shaft under the waterline and make it a quarter inch thick. DUMB.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

usually if you snap off a power head bolt ya have to cut it. depends on which bolt breaks as to if I have to cut the power head adapter plate. sometimes I can use a 3/8th's drill bit and drill through the bolt on a horizontal plane just below the powerhead and remove all the pieces later. sometimes its just whack the adapter. if no bolts break, and yes that has actually happened, the shift shaft is a 3 hour operation. I have spent as much as 15 hours. for some reason yamaha tapers the bolt holes. they are much larger at the top than at the bottom. remember that when driving out the broken parts. the steering arm is a bit different . it requires a complete dissasembly of the midsection. were it me I would look through some of the rebuilder sites for a complete midsection. usually you can get them for 500 to 750 dollars with the trim and powerhead adapter in place.

 

[douglloyd]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

At least the steering arm has some beef to it. Or am I wrong. Does it have a weak point?

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

The steering arm can clearly rust away a lot longer than the shift shaft can. <br /><br />"What were they thinking at Yamaha to install some cheap pot metal shaft under the waterline and make it a quarter inch thick. DUMB."<br /><br />As far as I can see, it's the shift shaft, the steering arm, and the tilt-lock lever that got built out of crap metal before the "Saltwater Series" fixed the provlem circa 1994. Rest of the insides of my engine (1993) seem to be in good shape.

 

[douglloyd]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

Yup and the trim motor cover. I have been soaking these parts with T9 Boesheild trying to prolong the inevitable.

 

[Adman5]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> usually if you snap off a power head bolt ya have to cut it. depends on which bolt breaks as to if I have to cut the power head adapter plate. sometimes I can use a 3/8th's drill bit and drill through the bolt on a horizontal plane just below the powerhead and remove all the pieces later. sometimes its just whack the adapter. if no bolts break, and yes that has actually happened, the shift shaft is a 3 hour operation. I have spent as much as 15 hours. for some reason yamaha tapers the bolt holes. they are much larger at the top than at the bottom. remember that when driving out the broken parts. the steering arm is a bit different . it requires a complete dissasembly of the midsection. were it me I would look through some of the rebuilder sites for a complete midsection. usually you can get them for 500 to 750 dollars with the trim and powerhead adapter in place.

 

[Adman5]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

It is amazing to find someone with precise knowledge. 92 Yamaha 225 (1,000 hrs), flexing shift shaft, lower unit off, 5 of 6 snapped bolts on sides(even with oxy/acy torch), adapter will be toast to try to remove (air chisel to cut away?). My powerhead is good, my lower unit is good (rebuilt 3 yrs ago,no problems), tilt and bracket good, steering arm (unknown now), but I would greatly appreciate some experienced advice as I proceed from here with vacation 2 weeks away! (as usual). Who are these rebuilder sites for midsection? I spend 500-750 on midsection, new shift shaft $75, waterpump kit $60 and some labor (I'll do some myself) $500 which is about $1,500 + total to fix a bs $75 poorly engineered part. More importantly, I get an 1,000 hr '92 engine. The usual dilemna, money wasted, buy new, buy used or rebuilt (225 or 250)not 4 stroke (I'm not there yet)or rebuild? We all face similar decisions, but I'd really be interested in all points of view on this point. Thanks<br />Adam

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

I feel pretty hosed on this issue. I boat on the Atlantic in Maine and with the cold water and changeable weather and unforgiving coastline, it's not comforting going out knowing the shift shaft may snap on me. <br /><br />And yeah, that was my take too - probably a few busted powerhead bolts and this is a $1500 job easy. <br /><br />If there were not also issues of fuel economy at $3/gal with these engines and emissions, I might opt for a used or rebuilt later model Saltwater Series of the same engine - maybe 1998 or something like that. Beyond that the only upgrade which can be done is to an HPDI, as the 4 stroke 225 is WAY too heavy. But these engines are too new to be available used/rebuilt at any reasonable price and the new prices are way out of my budget.<br /><br />By the way, Rodbolt, I assume the regular carbed 2-strokes are plug-and-play from 1993 up until they stopped making them? I would hate to throw re-rigging costs on top of that particular option.

 

[swist]

Re: 1993 Yam 225 Shifting Problem

Well I took a close look at this when I was at the boat yesterday. It is hard to tell if it is a cable adjustment or spring in the shift shaft. All the positions on the shifter are to the left of where they should be - "real" neutral is at 11 o'clock instead of straight up, which explains why when you return it to straight up it is still in reverse. And all the other positions are correspondingly counterclockwise from where they should be. <br /><br />But I can't see how one adjusts the shift linkage to center it - in the engine all I see is the end of a cable which goes to this grommet type assembly which slides up and down a plastic groove - underneath it connects to the actual shift linkage. The Clymer manual has nothing in it above this stuff - do you adjust the linkage at the 704 control box?<br /><br />If it gets any worse I will have a situation where the neutral start switch only starts the boat in reverse.<br /><br />I really need to try this first before I start assuming it's a corroded shift shaft.