1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

[michaeljoffe]

Hi I have a Dual Console Trophy with w 96 Force 120. Low hours on the engine.

The thing does not want to start w/o problems.
Amp on the battery is in the 12 range, turning key drops the amps, engine slow cranks, starter spins very slowly.

Manged to start it last night, but then it died. Thankfully got it back to the dock.

Is this the signs of a bad starter?
Anything else to try?
How do you manually start the outboard?

Also, i opened the cowling and noticed that there is liquid (gas?) in the carb cover. is that normal?

too much fuel?

flooded engine?

Help me prove my wife wrong about boating :}

thanks!

 

[john from md]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

First, the fluid in t he carb inlets is normal from tilting the engine and normal operation.

As for starting, first thing to do, if you don't know the condition of your battery, is to take it to Pep Boys or Walmart to get it tested. Then you want clean all contacts from the batter to the starter with some steel wool until they shine. After you reconnect them, spray them with WD40 and it will turn to varnish and protect them from corroding.

Be careful with the steel wool, if you drop it between the battery terminals, it will ignite.

Do this and then let us know how it goes.

John

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

John,

i will try that tomorrow.. one thisn that i forgot to mention is that i tried using 2 batteries bridged with a jumper cable.. no luck.

engine did start on land w/ fresh water running to the motor

 

[john from md]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

If you have corrosion on your wire terminals even two batteries won't do the trick. It will however cause your wires to heat up.

As far as starting on a garden hose, that is because there is no back pressure on the exhaust system. When starting on water, your engine has to overcome the pressure of the water to push the exhaust gas out. There are two relief holes on the back of the motor leg. Sometimes bugs get in them and clogg them up. You might try probing with a soda straw or piece of weed wacker plastic. Don't probe with metal as there is a rubber hose connection inside the leg that you don't want to puncture.

John

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

First thing: A compression test.Then a spark test.
If you remove the plugs and try to start it and it still won't turn then the starter might need a rebuild.
Dothe tests,post your results.J

Just because it ran two days ago don't mean NOTHING!!!!

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

ok..

so i cleaned the contacts.. no luck.. starter gear barely moves

removed the plug wires.. starter barely moves

battery still in 12 range.

tried w/ 2 batteries.. wires just got hot..

mj

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

one more thing.. sould i disconnect the starter wire and clean that off as well?
i can give that a shot but im out of ideas, short of getting the guy the redid the elictircal to install a new starter.

John the holes that you mentioned looked of. water flowed out of them.

anything else to watch out for?

 

[john from md]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

If you know how to use a multimeter, you can take a reading at the starter when the key is turned. With a fully charged battery, you shouldn't get more that a 1 volt drop at the starter wire. If you get more than that, you have high resistance in the wires or solinoid. If you don't get much voltage drop and the starter isn't turning fast, it is the starter.

John

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

REmove the plugs to see if it turns over.If it does then do a compression test.
There are certain steps to troubleshooting an engine.
You might not think it needs it but follow the steps.
Compressio then spark then fuel.J

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Jerry,

i removed the wires from the plug, starter moved but not enough to get things moving.

John,

Sorry for the dumb question but is the solenoid in the starter?
Where could the resistance be coming from?

THx.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Not the wire but the plugs themself.Then turn it over.The solenoid is in the system before the starter.J

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

is there a stater that i could replace the current one with that is more powerful? or am i stuck with the 1 model?

 

[john from md]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

You haven't determined what your problem is yet, so don't buy parts yet.

The solinoid is a black plastic thing that has a wire going from it to the starter. Any large wire from the battery to the starter can be a potential problem. Additionally, the main ground (black wire) attached to the engine block can have high resistance.

High resistance is caused by corrosion between the cable contact and the item it is connected to. You need to clean all contacts first before swapping out parts.

John

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

There is only one model starter. When everything is working properly (good electrical connections, good starter, good battery), the starter has plenty of power to turn the motor over.

 

[jaybirddog11]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

michaeljoffe, Make sure you have a good engine ground. I once had similar problems due to a poor engine ground.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Your looking everywhere and asking questions but won't do the basics.
Compression test.Spark test. Fuel system check.Commpression testers can be bought for about $15.
Remove the plugs and do a compression test. If that's good.Then check for spark.
Then go thru and check every ground and positive connection for being loose.
If that's ok then disasemble the starter.They can get clogged up after time.J

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Thanks all!
i will get back to the boat next week and update.

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Hi all,

Well I wound up getting a new starter, turns over like a champ. Also bought a 1000MCA battery. Had a few fits and starts but was able to go out today.

New question:

After starting it up (yay!) the boat doesnt like to idle below say 1000 in neutral setting. Also, no problems getting up to speed. But going slow at the under 1000 mark gets a bit rough and then the engine dies.

Any ideas here? fuel/air mix?

thx

 

[john from md]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

There really is no set idle rpm for neutral. The idle rpm can only be set correctly when the engine is in forward gear, just out of the neutral position.

You can do this easily by tying up to a dock fore and aft. Set your idle to 700-750 using the idle speed screw. Then adjust your mixture screws to obtain best rpm. Lastly, go back to the idle speed screw and bring the idle back to 700-750.

Some folks say to not go below 7/8 turn when adjusting the mixture screws. Irecommend not going below 1 turn as the gasoline formulas have changed and there is no reason to risk a lean mixture.

Regards,

John

 

[michaeljoffe]

Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

as a complete neebie here.. can you define what a "lean Mixture" is exaclty? too much air in mixing w/ gas? or the other way around?

also just to confirm the screws that you are referring to are parts 23+24 on the following site::

http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/components/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewparts&colid=06&coldesc=120%20H%2EP%2E%20%281996%29&index=2009&block=6&BlockNumberList=10,6,1,0,13,11,12,17,14,25,8,19,21,20,22,18,2,3,28,23,24,7,5,4,15,26,27,9,16