1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

john from md

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Seafoam won't hurt. It works better when the engine is hot when first applied but it may clean some carbon off even when cold.
 

jason32038

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

When you take the head off check the cylinders for scoring. If you see scoring you can take the port covers off or the water jacket cover depending on which side you see scoring and try to get an idea of the damage without taking the engine apart. One of my powerheads that I bought from the marina had 2 scored pistons. One was scored so deep that it was holding both rings down on 1 cylinder. Haven't taken that one apart yet but I think the powerhead is toast it's already bored .020 over :(
 

michaeljoffe

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Apr 24, 2010
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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Headgasket this weekend, fingers crossed.

If indeed it is a piton issue, how do i know which one to buy? I have seen 4 diff sizes om pistons-online.com also the prices seem all over the place. Boston.net is almost 200 per while this other site is under 100..
 

john from md

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Search for Frank Acampora's posts. He has done several threads on piston replacement.
 

jasonbailey

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Headgasket this weekend, fingers crossed.

If indeed it is a piton issue, how do i know which one to buy? I have seen 4 diff sizes om pistons-online.com also the prices seem all over the place. Boston.net is almost 200 per while this other site is under 100..


Before you start slapping new pistons in the motor you have to trouble shoot what caused it to fail in the first place. Dirty carb, mixture set to lean etc, broken/stuck ring.

Head gaskets are easy to change. If the old one is not blown don't put the new one in and expect it to be cured, you have other issues.
 

michaeljoffe

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Well I went ahead and started the headgasket replacement process...

5 bolts broke, yay.. any suggestions on how to get them out?
I am enclosing pics of the cylinders as well, i cant see anything that looks bad, but then again im not sure what i am looking for.

The HC was pretty bad and there is this white crust everywhere and carbon build up on the top of the piston heads.
pic 2259 is the one with the poor compression.


thx/
 

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john from md

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

I don't see any damage in the cylinder with the bad compression so it is a good chance that the head gasket was the problem. Too bad about the broken bolts. If they are corroded as bad as I suspect, trying to drill them and using an eazy out will only result in a broken eazy out.
The only way to fix the problem is to drill them out and insert helicoils in the bad holes.

Unfortuneately, this kind of work is best done on a drill press. It is too easy to "walk" a drill bit trying to drill them out by hand and there isn't that much metal between the holes and the water jacket.
That would require you to tear down the engine and bring it to a machine shop. It can also get expensive fast. :(
 

michaeljoffe

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

which part is expensive? the machine shop or busting the water jacket?

is there something that can loosen the bolt? wd40 or something stonger?

im guessing that the bolts are Al, is the engine block Al as well or is it another type of metal?

also how do i get rid of the white corrosion?
 

john from md

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

The machine shop work gets expensive.

If you cut through a water jacket, depending where it is, the engine may be junk as some areas are not repairable.

As for removing the bolts, at the street level, it is usually not possible. The reason is that the bolts, which are steel, have reacted with the case, which is aluminum. This causes what is called dissimilar metal corrosion. When this occurrs to a bolt in a recess, the buildup of corrosion usually locks the threads up solid. That is why the bolt fails.

Sometimes the bolt breaks in the case and sometimes the head of the bolt snaps (if they are inferior grade bolts). Even if you have some bolt shank available, you will probably not be able to turn it out even with vise grips and WD40, which is not a great penetrating oil.

There are special stud removers that you can try if the shank of the bolt is accessable. If you decide to try this, I would suggest using a penetrating oil such as "Kroil" and heating the case to try to draw the oil into the threaded area.

This is about the only technique open to you if you have the puller available. Snap On tools and MAC tools sell these stud removers but they were designed to insert and remove good studs from good blocks and may not work in this instance.
 

michaeljoffe

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

I found the manual and I will try to take the engine apart, its not super helpful. Any pointers or suggestions?
 

michaeljoffe

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Apr 24, 2010
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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

SELOC

Are the Clymer manuals more descriptive? pics and the such?

Total newbie question:

Do i need a special tool to remove the flywheel or can I do it with just a socket wrench?

MJ
 

john from md

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

The Clymer Force Outboard Shop Manual is a better manual than a Seloc. However, as both manuals cover all models of engines, they are not as detailed as the factory manual.

To remove the flywheel, you will need a socket and wrench for the nut and a three screw puller and some penetrating oil to pull the flywheel.

I suggest you search for threads on pulling the flywheel as there are many on this board.
 

michaeljoffe

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Re: 1996 Force 120 has trouble starting

Just found a service manual on ebay. Will update post thread removal joy.

mJ
 
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