1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

ok will perform that this weekend and update.

Acquire an induction ammeter (amp tester) like this (from NAPA). If voltage goes up and charge current stays up, then you may have a VR problem. I'll bet voltage goes to 14 or 15 and current goes to nil.

In the event you have over charging, you can isolate it by disconnecting one regulator at a time. You have 2 completely independent 20 amp charging circuits on your engine.

hope it helps
John

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

Ok let me start by apologizing for being a dunce when it comes to outboards... I got the book finally and was testing everything WRONG! i feel like an idiot. voltage at solenoid and battery match and doesn't go over 16. I have isolated the problem as being the signal wire into the alarm module. Mounted into number 2 wire on the outside switch box... iw as only jumping it around on that same switch box (port bank) when I jumped it straight to the coil at cylinder 1 no more alarm at all RPM but when triggering alarm still works fine. So the problem appears to be in the voltage signal. So two questions... any idea whats wrong there and is there any harm leaving it jumped off cylinder 2 top of the starboard bank. I am so sorry for wasting your time, genuinely.

 

[ufm82]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

I can't help you with the rest of your problem but don't ever feel bad about "wasting time". When it comes to boats and engines there are very few experts in the world. You've found a number of people here who are able to help as best they can via a web site. They enjoy sharing their expertise as much as you appreciate receiving it. Boaters are a breed apart from the general populace. I applaud you for keeping up with this and trying to fix it yourself before spending hard earned money somewhere else.

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

thank you for the reassurance and wanted to correct above about leaving it jumped to the number 1 coil... as this does not trigger the alarm.

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

The oil alert doesn't really care which cylinder it gets the signal from, so from that standpoint, you can leave the wire on any cylinder.

The real problem is that the cylinder it was connected to is misfiring.

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

that was my understanding too it appears all on that bank 2,4,6, must be misfiring, 1,3,5 do not trigger the alarm but the port bank all trigger the alarm as soon as rpm goes up.

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

Again I am not knowledgeable but would it be reasonable to think they outer (port bank) switchbox could be bad since that is where the signal comes from for the oil alarm... and all posts on that switchbox result in same alarm but all posts on inner (starboard bank) result give me no alarm.

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

Again I am not knowledgeable but would it be reasonable to think they outer (port bank) switchbox could be bad since that is where the signal comes from for the oil alarm... and all posts on that switchbox result in same alarm but all posts on inner (starboard bank) result give me no alarm.

That thing must be running like crap at over 3000 rpm. Yer dropping an entire bank at high speed.

The two things that affect that are the switchbox, and the stator that powers it. If you do the DVA tests on stator output, you can isolate the problem. If the readings are right, the switchbox is bad. If they are wrong, the stator is bad.

I'm dying of curiosity. How did you get high voltage readings on the solenoid?

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

oh i'm embarrassed to admit i was not using the ground .... I was so worried about where i was probing the positive that i was hitting the round on the positive input in the middle of the starter instead of the ground wire on the problem. Well I did notice just before hte alarm i almost died at me as soon as I hit about 2500 but then picked right back up. whenever the alarm would go over it would die. I was told the motor had a throttle limiter in the event of an oil alarm so i assumed the dyout was that but now i think that that it was the entire left bank dying at that RPM. all makes a little more sense now. I lack the appropriate tools to do the DVA test think I'm gonna have to suck it up and take it to a pro now...

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

oh i'm embarrassed to admit i was not using the ground .... I was so worried about where i was probing the positive that i was hitting the round on the positive input in the middle of the starter instead of the ground wire on the problem. Well I did notice just before hte alarm i almost died at me as soon as I hit about 2500 but then picked right back up. whenever the alarm would go over it would die. I was told the motor had a throttle limiter in the event of an oil alarm so i assumed the dyout was that but now i think that that it was the entire left bank dying at that RPM. all makes a little more sense now. I lack the appropriate tools to do the DVA test think I'm gonna have to suck it up and take it to a pro now...

Well, you were told wrong. The dying motor was setting off the alarm, (by the spark signal being missing). The alarm doesn't alter the operation of the engine at all.

You can make a DVA adapter for a few dollars. Even if you buy one of the high buck meters you can then do your own testing for about what it would cost to have a pro do it, and you then own the meter.

Now, let me give you a clue. If you make no assumptions and tell this global crowd of outboard motorheads all that is happening, you are likely to get to the bottom of the problem a whole lot quicker than this thread got to it.

Generally there's only one fault, and the symptoms presented, the easier it is to get to the common cause. Just simple analysis in action.

hope it helps
John

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

ok so my understanding is i need a meter with 400VDC and DVA capacity correct? Or at least a meter with 400VDC capabilities then make a DVA adapter. could you also tell me, there is a box that looks like the alarm module on top of the motor in the rear it has 1 wire to ground and 2 wires coming out out of it. each goes to a switchbox... what is that? Yes i am learning alot through this thread. Gonna look for one of the those meters and I will get the part number of that second alarm looking box because I just don't understand what that is and i don't want to overlook anything or fail to tell this forum all the information. Thanks.

Brian

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

ok so my understanding is i need a meter with 400VDC and DVA capacity correct? Or at least a meter with 400VDC capabilities then make a DVA adapter. could you also tell me, there is a box that looks like the alarm module on top of the motor in the rear it has 1 wire to ground and 2 wires coming out out of it. each goes to a switchbox... what is that? Yes i am learning alot through this thread. Gonna look for one of the those meters and I will get the part number of that second alarm looking box because I just don't understand what that is and i don't want to overlook anything or fail to tell this forum all the information. Thanks.

Brian

Yep, you're correct.

That module is the idle stabilizer or advance module. The wires connect to similar colored wires on the top row of screws on a switchbox. One is always white/black and modifies the bias voltage, thus changing the timing.

If bad or wired wrong, could be part of the problem.

At this point try these quickies.
1. Disconnect the module we just discussed and try the engine. (checks for bad module)

2. With said module disconnected, disconnect the white/black jumper between the switchboxes and try the engine. checks switchbox bias link. If engine now runs, the "good" switchbox is the bad one. Weird, I know. I don't have a coupla days time to 'splain it.

Odds are fairly slim that either test will reveal anything, but they're quick and free, and might help.

hope it helps
John

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

Ok performed that test.. when module disconnected i had no signal from cylinder 2 at idle and up but signal at 4 and 6 up until about 2500 rpm... then alarm again.. still good on 1,3,5. Then disconnected the jumped and again signal on all at <2500-3000 rpm but no signal on 2,4,6 above that rpm. (Engine did run the same no matter which of these tests I performed). i have found some automotive voltmeters with settings for 100VDC and 1000VDC, that would work for this test if I build a DVA correct? if so I will order those voltmeters unless there is one you particularly recommend. Unfortunatley the voltmeter i have the settings are 20, 200, 300 so it doesn't go high enough. I have also noticed at idle the rpms are jumping now but could totally be because its been colder here in NEPA and totally unrelated but wanted to throw it out there. Thanks.

Brian

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

It's definitely either a bad stator or one bad switchbox.

Swap the stator wires between the packs. Front wires to back pack and vice versa. If the bad bank moves, it's a bad stator. If the same bank stays bad, it's the switchbox.

Long shot, it could be all 3 coils. Easy to test by swapping one out.

DVA would be easier and quicker, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

hope it helps
John

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

no i found a multimeter with DVA adapter for purchase goes to 1000 VDC but may do that test in the immediate future. and what they heck, swap a coil out too. might as well rule everything out before buying anymore non-returnable parts.

Brian

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

no i found a multimeter with DVA adapter for purchase goes to 1000 VDC but may do that test in the immediate future. and what they heck, swap a coil out too. might as well rule everything out before buying anymore non-returnable parts.

Brian

You got that one right.

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

Ok received the multimeter with DVA today. Do i have to disconnect all wires to test or can i test them right where they are. Once this is complete i will post the results probably not today as i have this nasty cold that seems to be going around. thanks.

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

ok ran the test today... Was unable to get readings off coil positive to negative... any idea why? Not sure what I was doing wrong there but here are the other results.

At idle.
Red-100
Blue-150
Black-yellow-200
jumper line-22-25 at idle would jump very high when engine would catch and rev alittle this done without DVA
all lines from trigger 2 greys then white came in at 20.
When ramped up to 1500 RPM got 300VDC on Red high speed line. According to what I can tell these all come within specification. now I only tested the box going to the 3 cylinders that lose spark. As the other one is buried underneath this. Do i need to test this one as well... Anyway. i'm thinking that switchbox is bad. let me know if there is more i can test on that to determine that for sure. Thank you again.

 

[j_martin]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

Swap a coil out. Make sure you're not dealing with 3 bad coils or wires.

Bias (jumper wire) is developed from the trigger, and normally is a DC voltage about 50% of trigger peak voltage. (thus the jump when the engine speeds up) If you look at the trigger waveform with an oscilloscope, you can see a firing artifact on it at bias voltage.

I'd remove the jumper wire on the front box, and check the bias on each box. (wire is still connected to back box.) They should be about the same. Engine will run fine with the wire off for testing.

hope it helps
John

 

[bjrrockwell]

Re: 1998 Mariner offshore V-135 2.0 Liter Low oil alarm

will do... actually that was on all coils... even the ones i knew were firing or at least were sending a signal to the alarm module. i was jumping the two posted on back of coil... is this correct or did i miss something. ok i will disconnect bias wire and check voltage on each and report. and also according to the procedure i found you test the bias reversed, meaning negative probe on bias jumper post and positve on engine ground without DVA.