1999 Johnson 130hp no spark.

[thyNemesis]

I'm in the process of troubleshooting a problem, I have removed the flywheel and trying to do some testing of the stator/battery charge coil. I unplugged the stator, brown/brown-yellow with purple(blue) connector, and connected my meter to the purple(blue) connector, I'm reading around 500ohms. Is this a correct reading???

<snip..snip> from manual...

"Since most stator/battery charge coil test values are near or below 1 ohm"

Any ideas???

I've included a photo on the stator/battery charge coil.

I've checked the ohm value of the purple(blue) connector, 500 ohms.

The way I'm reading the manual, that there are two seperate coils on the stator widings, one for the battery charge circuit and another for the ignition circuit. Am I correct on this?

If I look at the picture, I see two larger yellow coils, 180 degrees apart from each other, is this the battery charge part or the ignition portion?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

I don't have the book with the ohm value readings...BUT.............

The series of small coils on both sides of the stator pertain to the alternator battery charging system.

The two larger coils, 180 degrees apart are the ones that supply approximately 300v to the powerpack.

A meter reading taken on the Brown Brown/Yellow wires would pertain to the two large coils (ignition).

You state that you're trouble shooting a problem... which one, ignition or charging?

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Thanks for the repsonse.

I am looking at both, when motor is running I'm only getting 12.3 volts on my battery, should be somewhere around 14v or so.

I am also getting an intermittent problem with my ignition, at least I think I am. My engine seems to not have spark all the time.
I have another post explaining my problems, look for my recent posts, titled "1999 johnson 130hp..." etc...

thanks for the info

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Are you also having problems with your tachometer intermittently?

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Come to speak of it, YES, I have noticed my tach working intermittent...

What are you trying to say? What do you suppose is happening? anything I could check while I have the flywheel is off?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

(Testing Tachometer With Water Cooled Regulator/Rectifier)
(J. Reeves)

A quick check is to simply plug in a another new tachometer as a piece of test equipment. If the new tach works properly and the old tach didn't, obviously the old tach is faulty.... but usually boaters don't carry around a spare tach (see below).

A faulty rectifier wouldn't damage the tachometer, the tachometer simply wouldn't work. This is due to the fact that the tachometer operates off of the charging system and the rectifier converts AC voltage to DC voltage, enabling the charging system. A faulty rectifier disables the charging system, and the tachometer simply doesn't register.

However.... those water cooled regulator/rectifiers that are used on the 35 ampere charging systems (and some others) bring into play a different type problem, and as you've probably found out, they are really a pain to troubleshoot via the proper procedure. There's an easier way.

The tachometer sending/receiving setup operates off of the gray wire at the tachometer. That same gray wire exists at the engine wiring harness which is connected to the engine electrical terminal strip. You'll see that there is a gray wire leading from the regulator/rectifier to that terminal strip, and that there is another gray wire attached to it. That other gray wire is the wire leading to the tachometer which is the one you're looking for.

NOTE: For the later models that DO NOT incorporate a wiring terminal strip, splicing into the "Yellow Wire" mentioned will be necessary.

Normally the Gray wire leading from the tachometer is attached at the terminal strip to another Gray wire which leads from the water cooled voltage regulator/rectifier...... remove the gray wire that leads to the tachometer. Now, find the two (2) yellow wires leading from the stator to that terminal strip. Hopefully one of them is either yellow/gray or is connected to a yellow/gray wire at the terminal strip. If so, connect the gray wire you removed previously to that yellow/gray terminal. Start the engine and check the tachometers operation, and if the tachometer operates as it should, then the regulator/rectifier is faulty and will require replacing. If the tachometer is still faulty, replace the tachometer.

If neither of the yellow wires from the stator is yellow/gray, and neither is attached to a yellow/gray wire, then attach that gray tachometer wire to either yellow stator wire, then the other yellow wire, checking the tachometer operation on both connections.

I've found this method to be a quick and efficient way of finding out which component is faulty.... the tachometer or the regulator/rectifier. It sounds drawn out but really only takes a very short time to run through. If the water cooled regulator/rectifier proves to be faulty, don't put off replacing it as they have been known to catch on fire with disastrous consequences.

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Joe,

Nice write up, very informative! I'll be looking into this area sometime in the next week or so...

I have been having another problem that I'm also looking into at the moment. This is why I had removed the flywheel in the first place. I've been having an intermittent problem with my motor, it's been cutting off at different times. The last time is when I dropped the boat into the water, I went to go park the truck, the wife started the engine up and it ran for 5 minutes or so and it died before I returned, so i tried starting it again it it would not start. When I turned the key over, the starter would engage the flywheel, however, it would only spin for less than a second before the started dis-engaged, it did this quite a few times before I gave up and took the boat home.

Once home, I got out my spark tester and started testing every cylinder, one at a time, while checking the first cylinder, to my surprise it started up (in the driveway), I shut it down and tried checking all the remaing cylinders, all had spark. Put everything back to normal and tried starting it again, back to the starter engaging and dis-engaging within a second. Started the spark test all over again and had no spark at all but just one cylinder.

Was reading the forums and was informed it might be the magnents on the flywheel or the sense coil(?), took it apart and everything looked ok, visually at least. Also someone siad it could be a sheard key on the crank, that checked out ok. This is where I am stuck.

The voltage regulator shouldn't have anything to do with the ignition circuit, correct? I know that the windings for both the ignition and battery/charging are on the same device.

I did notice it backfired once, and only once during my attempts to start the engine at home. Someone had said the timing might be out of whack. The engine has been running without major issues for the whole season, 6-9 months. This problem has occurred a few times over the past month only to disappear. The engine would die out on the water only to start working again after a short while.

I appreciate your sharing of your knowledge with me. I will update this thread as to the status so others may use it as a quide.

Thanks.
Jeff

in Sunny Florida...

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Backfiring, that is actual backfiring... shotgun blast out the exhaust, is caused by a sheared flywheel key (throws the engine out of time).

If either of those large coils on the stator should be dripping a sticky looking substance down on the powerhead (stator meltdown), that would result in a voltage drop to the powerpack when the stator warms up... actually heats up. This usually results in good spark when the engine/stator is cold, but weak, erratic and eventually no spark when the stator heats up.

------------------

Another common failure is having a slightly shorted ignition switch leak a small amoun of voltage to the Black/Yellow (kill circuit) wire that leads to the powerpack.

To test... disconnect that Black/Yellow wire from either the powerpack or the ignition switch (whichever is easier), connect a volt meter, set so that it will register even a microvolt, between the ignition switch terminal and a ground... OR... between the Black/Yellow wire at the engines wiring harness and a ground (whichever you disconnected)... then turn the key to the RUN (engine not running) position. If the slightest amount of voltage registers, replace the ignition switch.

Voltage applied to that Black/Yellow wire will in time destroy the powerpack... but at first results in a intermittent shutdown of the igniiton system.

 

[efishinc]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Hi, Joe I, am also helping thyNemesis on his motor as we fish together in seperate boats, you have some very good info here for us to use, normally we can diagnose these issues but this one has been a real bear, as it comes and goes, one day we can run from fishing hole to hole not a hint of problem then the next day its impossible, its like chasing 3 different problems at once that keep hiding from us, I, have suspected the ignition switch from the beginning leaking voltage,but didnt know how to test the rectifier, but your info will help us greatly we will post finding here for others who may run into this.

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Back with some more info...

I found some documents from marineengine.com on the components I was looking to test:

173-3410 - STATOR 9 AMP
133-3508 - TIMER BASE, 583508, 763782
193-4205 - REGULATOR, 763791, 584675

I needed some values for the things I was looking to checkout and the TechInfo docs provided those values.

First I tested my Stator, both the yellow-yellow and the Orange-Orange wires were within specs, 500ohm and 95ohms.

Next was the Timerbase, and those wires all checked out within specs.

I checked the magnents on the flywheel and they looked ok. I also checked the keyway and it was still in great shape.
Charged my batteries, both of them.

I removed my key switch and tested all the connection with each position, tested OK. I followed the wires back to the engine and checked to make sure I had no open wire along the way back.

I inspected the voltage regulator for any signs of external damage caused by a internal shorted component, found nothing.

Next I decided it would be easier to check the output of the voltage regualtor at the starter relay than to remove flywheel, remove ignition cover, remove voltage regulator wire as describe in the Techinfo docs re-assemble everything and test the engine.

So, I dis-connected the small red wire attached to the starter relay (that comes from the terminal block(Voltage regulator output) ). I hook up my ampmeter in-series with the red wire and back to the starter relay and tried to start the engine, NADA, zip, nothing. The engine would not even turn over at all, no power.

When I re-attached the red wire back to where it belongs I could turn the engine over, but still would not start.

Why would this be? The red wire is actually two red wires attached to the sinfgle terminal connector, could the other red wire feed the key switch or????

I'm leaning to buying a voltage regulator tomorrow. I've narrowed it down as much as I could. I was having intermittent problems with my tach and my batteries would not charge before and now my engine won't run at all. I've tested the spark with a spark tester and had no sparks.

Engine has been running fine all season, last 5-6 months.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Did you do the tachometer test as in post #6? That tells one quite a bit without going into all the number testing. I was wondering what the results of that was.

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

I could not perform that test since the engine is not able to run at all now!

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

I just re-read some of your posts and I forgot to do the keyswitch voltage - kill switch test.

Will be doing that tomorrow AM before I go purchase my voltage regulator. Want to be as sure as I can before spending cash on a part I'd might not need.

It's starting to narrowed down to this part, just a few more tests and I will be ready to replace the voltage regulator.

All season I've had issues with my tach not working all the time, batteries not charging and now a non-starting engine.

Can a bad voltage regulator cause the engine not to run at all?

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

I was looking at the wires coming out of the voltage regualtor,

Two yellow = AC volage in
Gray = tachometer (I think you siad that)
Purple =?
Red = +regulated voltage

Any idea what the Purple wire is?

Thanks.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

That purple wire is also a voltage wire if memory serves me right (debatable), however the majority of the new regulator/rectifier units do not use that purple wire anymore.

The engine not starting thing.... are you saying that the engine cranks over and won't start, OR are you saying that the engine won't even crank over with the electric starter (starter doesn't engage)?

If it cranks over but won't start, remove all the spark plugs and check for spark that will jump a 7/16" gap. If no spark, remove the black/yellow wire from the ignition switch, then recheck for spark. If you now have spark, replace the ignition switch.

If it doesn't crank at all... check the power 20 amp fuse that is normally located in one of the smaller RED wires leading from the starter solenoid. That fuse may be blown OR you may simply have the throttle lever in a posiiton that is engaging the neutral safety switch.

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

The engine will crank over, start does engage and spins the flywheel, I do get a small puff of smoke from the exhaust. During my initial troubleshooting I pulled each spark plug in turn and used a spark tester. It seemed to me to only spark on one cylinder, all other had none, but it was daylight out side and could barley see the spark so don't hold me to that!

Today, Wed Nov 20, I will be going out and dis-connecting the black/yellow wire and testing to see if it's the kill circuit that is causing this problem.

Earlier in the season I was having this same kind of problem, I pulled the key switch out and tested it on my bench, everything seemed to be in order. I also traced this black/yellow wire back to the engine and pulled the wire connector apart and pulled the safety lanyard and it seemed to be working properly.

I will test this again and report back with the results.

I'm trying to fix this problem by this weekend and leaning towards the Voltage Regulator being replaced! Just a few more tests and it will be replaced.

Many thanks for your valuable input! Youv'e been a great help.

Jeff

In Florida...

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

All spark plugs "ALL" must be removed when doing a spark test. The removal of all plugs is needed in order to have the engine cranking over at the highest possible rpm in order to have the stator energize the powerpack.

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Status update:

Today I disconnected the black/yellow wire at the engine, tried starting the engine and it's a NO-GO
Tried doing the spark test again like you descibed and have no spark at all.

Bought my voltage regulator today, decided it needed replacement since my tach and battery charging circuit is not working reliably. I don't think this will have any effect on my other problem, the "No spark" issue.

When I was down at the marina, buying my voltage regulator, I met an older gentleman who had worked on marine engines for a good many years. We had started a conversation about what my symptons where and what I had done to troubleshoot the problems. In the end, he had come to the conclusion that it was probably going to be my "Power Pack".

So, does anybody have a way to test the Powr Pack, without the engine running? I have a feeling that the capacitor inside the Power Pack is probably the issue that I'm having. Everything else seems to check out ok. I believe thats all that is left in the circuit.

What say you???

Thanks.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

If "all" of the spark plugs were removed, the engine is cranking over at a fast rpm, and you have the black/yellow wire disconnected at the ignition switch... and still have no spark. I can think of only one possibility other than a failed powerpack........

That black/yellow wire has been known to ground out within the wiring harness via a conductance scenario which would result in a short similar to a failed ignition switch. Disconnect that same black/yellow wire from the powerpack to eliminate it completely. If still no spark, then it usually a failed powerpack.

 

[thyNemesis]

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Re: 1999 Johnson 130hp stator/battery charge ohm value reading???

Do these Power Pack fail all that often?

I'm not sure if these power pack use an electrolytic capacitor, I know these types of capacitors don't have an infinite life span. This is what I think is went bad in my unit.

Tomorrow, I will replace my voltage regulator and will have to order the Power Pack, man, I hope this is the problem!


Joe, I thank you for your assistance. It's been very valuable in helping me eliminating possibilities with this issue.

I will be sure to update this thread once my new Power Pack is installed.