1999 Johnson 50 j50pleea shift rod height?

[SouthSeaPirate]

Hello everybody
Im trying to restore reverse due to what I believe to be an incorrectly adjusted shift rod by a local shop.
I read in only one very old thread that it is 21 15/16". However that is the only post I can find. Im also not sure if that changes depending on engine length. The post did not say. And if it does, how do I know what size engine length I have? It is on a pontoon so I figure it is longer.
Can anyone help me confirm?
Much appreciated.

 

[racerone]

Well---- 21-15/16" is correct and the ----L---in your model indicates it is a long shaft.----Take good care of that lower unit as they are not the most ROBUST units out there.

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

Well---- 21-15/16" is correct and the ----L---in your model indicates it is a long shaft.----Take good care of that lower unit as they are not the most ROBUST units out there.

Very much appreciated
Cool to know about model identification.
Should I worry that this may be a lost cause?
What can I do to 'take care of it'? Keep the oil fresh?

 

[racerone]

Sorry----I ( volunteer ) can not see, hear or feel your motor.---When / how did you lose reverse ?----What is the measurement now.------Some folks want / demand instant answers but do not post the correct details on this site.----Use the best quality oil in there ( BRP brand ) at your dealer.----Make sure no water gets into that gearcase.

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

Sorry----I ( volunteer ) can not see, hear or feel your motor.---When / how did you lose reverse ?----What is the measurement now.------Some folks want / demand instant answers but do not post the correct details on this site.----Use the best quality oil in there ( BRP brand ) at your dealer.----Make sure no water gets into that gearcase.

Well I thought you meant there was something specific when you said take care of it. Just checking if there was something I didn't know.
I research as I am mechanically inclined, but I just couldn't find much info. Im very new to this but I can learn with some help

To answer your question, IDK how or when the reverse was lost. PO claims it was after the water pump was serviced, which in turn makes me think misadjusted. I havent removed the lower unit yet, but it did remove the sift linkage to manually test. If I pushed harder, then the prop would start to catch when I manually spun it. Worth a shot to check the adjustment I would think.

Ill still need to get some oil then and also figure out if there's a poor mans way to pump oil in. Of which I still dont understand why it can't be filled from the top hole.

Again, really appreciate it.

 

[racerone]

Well for about 70 years or more outboard gearcases have been filled from the bottom.-----That way as the oil rises the air is pushed out and you are 100% sure it is at the correct amount.---Many years ago folks came into the repair shop with burnt up gears. ---Admitted they changed the oil themselves.-----A simple job that can be done wrong , ---Sorry to be so blunt here.

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

Well for about 70 years or more outboard gearcases have been filled from the bottom.-----That way as the oil rises the air is pushed out and you are 100% sure it is at the correct amount.---Many years ago folks came into the repair shop with burnt up gears. ---Admitted they changed the oil themselves.-----A simple job that can be done wrong , ---Sorry to be so blunt here.

No worries, I want to told factual info. The engine is entirely new to me. So IDK the history and hopefully I don't have burnt up gears.
When I got it one of the screws near the bottom was leaking oil pretty quickly. Seems the viscosity was a little light. Im assuming it should be 80w-90 or something higher.
I learned something new again. Purging air makes sense with the much thicker oil and tighter tolerance. Im used to vehicle differentials.
Thanks again

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

Well, that was an entirely wasted evening.
I could get it to fully lock in F and R while lower unit was off.
It wasnt super smooth but I figured without the gear lube it wouldnt be.
Replace it back in and now it's way worse.

I have F, F and N. So lever in center Im still in F.
Removed the cable just to confirm and manually move the lever. All the way back and Ill get N.
I checked and checked my measurements multiple times.
WTH do I do now?

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

Well, that was an entirely wasted evening.
I could get it to fully lock in F and R while lower unit was off.
It wasnt super smooth but I figured without the gear lube it wouldnt be.
Replace it back in and now it's way worse.

I have F, F and N. So lever in center Im still in F.
Removed the cable just to confirm and manually move the lever. All the way back and Ill get N.
I checked and checked my measurements multiple times.
WTH do I do now?

how exactly are you measuring shift rod height? it needs to be in NEUTRAL for the measurement. i have an aluminum rod that I use... all pre-marked. I also do it in MM. 21''=533.4mm. then get calipers and measure the remainder in MM (or inches if thats easier for you). there is a leeway built in of .8mm or so. of course there was a special tool to do this, but not needed. remember you are measuring from the machined surface of the gearcase, not on top of the shift rod cover, to the center hole of the shift rod...

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

how exactly are you measuring shift rod height? it needs to be in NEUTRAL for the measurement. i have an aluminum rod that I use... all pre-marked. I also do it in MM. 21''=533.4mm. then get calipers and measure the remainder in MM (or inches if thats easier for you). there is a leeway built in of .8mm or so. of course there was a special tool to do this, but not needed. remember you are measuring from the machined surface of the gearcase, not on top of the shift rod cover, to the center hole of the shift rod...

I was in neutral, measured from machined surface using a straight edge that I marked. Then centered and squared a hex drill bit that was same size as the hole on the shift rod. Held the edge parallel as I could and turned until the bit was centered. Then checked again best I could with a tape measure.

I have an idea tho, My guess is I am in too far and that coupled with it possibly turning as I re-installed; I will lower the unit about a quarter inch. Enough to possibly spin the rod while the drive shaft is still installed as I will use the bolts to hold it in place. Reverse one turn, test, reverse another, test. Hopefully.

Really appreciate your help!

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

hmm. as mentioned these gearcases arent the strongest. but no worries... you say now it wont go into reverse with it off is that correct? it helps to spin the prop counterclockwise to get it to slip into gear... some motors will only shift properly when the driveshaft is spinning too, mostly just for the japanese motors but wouldn't hurt to see how it shifts when running if forward and neutral are working.

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

hmm. as mentioned these gearcases arent the strongest. but no worries... you say now it wont go into reverse with it off is that correct? it helps to spin the prop counterclockwise to get it to slip into gear... some motors will only shift properly when the driveshaft is spinning too, mostly just for the japanese motors but wouldn't hurt to see how it shifts when running if forward and neutral are working.

With the lower unit off I was indeed able to get it to lock in reverse. It just wasn't smooth engaging. I was assuming that was due to no oil. Hoping that's the case anyway.
Hopefully I can apply my plan above as I wont have help this time around.
Thanks!

 

[racerone]

Fact for you to ponder and understand.----When shifting those motors you have to turn the propshaft.

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

racer are these different in regards to needing to shift vs. the older style 2cyl loopers? just did an 84' powerhead swap and gearcase, and could easily get it into FNR without turning the propshaft... forgot if the newer 89' and up needs a rotating propshaft?

 

[racerone]

All " clutch dog " motors need the motor running or the prop shaft turning for easy shifting.----Not sure why some do not understand and argue about it.----Has to do with gears lining up so that clutch dog can slide properly.

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

Fact for you to ponder and understand.----When shifting those motors you have to turn the propshaft.

Oh I see, as in normal circumstances the driveshaft is spinning on a running engine.
Did I likely cause any damage doing this?
Either way Im still definitely off somehow as I did spin it when it was replaced on the engine, just not every time.

 

[racerone]

You can do damage to the control box / cables when shifting with either motor not running or propshaft not turning.-----Just some of the finer points on outboards that folks do not understand !----When the motor is running the gears ( pinion / forward / reverse ) are all turning !

 

[SouthSeaPirate]

Thank you all for your help. It seems I have finally gotten it properly adjusted.
There is the bracket on the opposite side of the block I had adjusted that got me to barely grabbing reverse. This was after a second time dropping the lower unit.
After this a good buddy came by and helped. Removed the pin that held the rod on its top end, lowered the LU only enough to spin the rod one turn as I felt close enough with reverse starting to grab.
Buttoned all up and seems good to go.

 

[ct1762@gmail.com]

All " clutch dog " motors need the motor running or the prop shaft turning for easy shifting.----Not sure why some do not understand and argue about it.----Has to do with gears lining up so that clutch dog can slide properly.

i simply asked, thats all. some just slip into gear easily, others do not. now some of the ones that don't may have worn 0-rings making it seem harder to shift, just an observation i asked about. the larger v4/v6 gearcases seem especially sensitive to needing the prop/driveshaft turned to shift. again, just my observation.

 

[racerone]

Shaft must be turning for painless shifting !