1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

[Silvertip]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Your engine is not a "Yamaha" -- it is built by GM so you could toddle on down to your local Chevy dealer to order a replacement. Any engine builder in your town would be able to rebuild the engine you have. Don't know where you are looking but it took about 10 seconds to find this rebuilder. And just so you know -- 3.0 liters is the same engine as a 181 cubic incher.

http://rebuilt.com/Inboard_Marine_Engines.htm

 

[honeys money]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Updates? Hope you did not give up, I have worked on stuff a week and made it worse, but my time is cheap, so I finnaly get it, makes me feel good to "get-r-done".

John

 

[metalwizard]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

I read MOSt of this thread, so If I duplicate I am sorry.

Like was said it comes down to 3 basic things for ANY engine to run. Fuel, Spark, and Compression.

That being said lets go a little deeper.

Fuel is easy if you tried starting fluid and still nothing. i am sure the fuel is fine.

you seem to get spark, bu erratically.. why? well maybe a couple things.
simple tune up stuff (sounds like that is covered) or another idea... see compression.

Ok first comp reading (if it was true) 0,0 25, 35. cyl 1 and 2 are dead.
3 and 4 not so good.

Next time. 0 125, 135, 0 cyls 1 and 4 now bad other two decent.

Why? anyone think of mechanical timing? timing gear with broken teeth and chain slipping? or even a broken chain? if the pistons are moving up and down but the vales are not opening and closing. that could cause the readings you are getting in compression. GM used PLASTIC upper gears in some motors (ones with NO chain straight gear driven) to reduce noise. if those teeth were pretty warn to the point of almost slipping. you put some fresh lube in it (oil change) go run it for a while now the lubrication is better, the worn teeth are lubed more, finally they can't take it and they slip.

This would explain ALL the symptoms. the upper gear may be turning sometimes (making reading change) and letting the distributor turn enough to get you some spark (maybe even WEAK ORANGE SPARK) this may give you a WEIRD set of compression readings and ones that change. this might even explain why Diesel fuel may have "started" it. (low octane easy to detonate, who knows for sure. SUGGESTION DON"T EVER TRY THAT, it's just STUPID)

so my suggestion. find TDC (top dead center) #1 cyl. see where your distributor is pointing. it should be pretty close to the number 1 plug wire) if not. theres your problem. if it is, well it could still be bad, you had a 1 in 4 chance of it being pointing in the right direction.

If it is pointing to the correct plug wire. crank it over several times for a couple seconds each time. then check again.. did it change? yep timing gear or chain is letting it move out of time. (or a sheared roll pin holding the dist. drive gear, but I doubt it)

I hope this helps out. seems you have tried most everything. and most of the data given here has been pretty good!

One Question. did it ever pop or backfire out the carb or exhaust? this is a REALLY good indication of a mechanical timing problem.

Good luck.

Last thing. if you check compression a couple more times and its consistent but BAD. you probably have a bad bottom end (rings) or top end (valves) next step is a leak down test to see where you are loosing compression.

 

[sstocker31]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

When doing the compression tests, do you have the throttle wide open.....it should be to get proper results.

 

[Ursula]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

$150 hr @ "certified" mechanic. 1 hour = 50 gallons of fuel @ California gas prices of $3.00 a gallon.
New parts this member has bought was only a new starter. Everyone could use a new starter.
Learning something about their boat while working on it is considered valuable to me. What if your motor dies in the middle of nowhere you think a "pro" mechanic will be on board to trouble shoot your problem?
It's a good learning experience.

Good luck and report back with new compression #

I agree 100%. Thanks!

 

[JPGBU1]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

$150 hr @ "certified" mechanic. 1 hour = 50 gallons of fuel @ California gas prices of $3.00 a gallon.
New parts this member has bought was only a new starter. Everyone could use a new starter.
Learning something about their boat while working on it is considered valuable to me. What if your motor dies in the middle of nowhere you think a "pro" mechanic will be on board to trouble shoot your problem?
It's a good learning experience.

Good luck and report back with new compression #

I only stated the mechanic because she wanted her brother to be able to be on the boat for the weekend. I read the whole thread. she has put a starter in... everyone needs a starter? thats bad advise. If a starter is 20 years old and works like new it needs to be replaced?? you must not have read the thread. Also a battery was replaced. Also a solinoid. Plugs and cap I understand. but your in how much with these parts? I was just trying to get her in the water for the weekend- if the boat ran fine, went away for the weekend, and now has issues... 99.9% of the time it is something simple and overlooked. Like a bad ground that broke loose. bad battery switch. maybe a drain on the battery as well. no 2 compression guages will give the same reading as well... but to have 0 on cylinders like I said it would need to be done again. I was only suggesting due to the time constraint.

 

[Challenger84]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

I only stated the mechanic because she wanted her brother to be able to be on the boat for the weekend. I read the whole thread. she has put a starter in... everyone needs a starter? thats bad advise. If a starter is 20 years old and works like new it needs to be replaced?? you must not have read the thread. Also a battery was replaced. Also a solinoid. Plugs and cap I understand. but your in how much with these parts? I was just trying to get her in the water for the weekend- if the boat ran fine, went away for the weekend, and now has issues... 99.9% of the time it is something simple and overlooked. Like a bad ground that broke loose. bad battery switch. maybe a drain on the battery as well. no 2 compression guages will give the same reading as well... but to have 0 on cylinders like I said it would need to be done again. I was only suggesting due to the time constraint.

Don't need to defend your post.
I didn't mean to counter your advice but just adding my opinion.
"everyone needs a new starter" is great advice. You can always use your old one as a spare. A new battery is also great to have. If the old battery is still good then now they can have a dual battery setup. Bout a $100 for peace of mind is well worth it to me.
The only time I will bring my boat to a shop is when I have exhausted all my options.
I have three boats and would not miss much time in the water if one of my boats are acting up. So I have time to research and "try" to fix the problem.
I agree with JPGBU1 if I was limited on time then yeah I'd bring it to a pro, but MOST shops around my area have a wait period of at least a week.

Did you ever get those compression numbers?
Any updates?
I hope you didn't give up!

 

[Ursula]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Don't need to defend your post.
I didn't mean to counter your advice but just adding my opinion.
"everyone needs a new starter" is great advice. You can always use your old one as a spare. A new battery is also great to have. If the old battery is still good then now they can have a dual battery setup. Bout a $100 for peace of mind is well worth it to me.
The only time I will bring my boat to a shop is when I have exhausted all my options.
I have three boats and would not miss much time in the water if one of my boats are acting up. So I have time to research and "try" to fix the problem.
I agree with JPGBU1 if I was limited on time then yeah I'd bring it to a pro, but MOST shops around my area have a wait period of at least a week.

Did you ever get those compression numbers?
Any updates?
I hope you didn't give up!

Hey guys!!! NO I haven't given up just busy.

Tonight I am going to double check the grounds and double check the wiring. This weekend I am going to put a timing light to it, do a leak down test and check the distributor.
The last compression reading I got was 0,100,120,90 after the new starter and battery. Which I don't think it is turning at the proper speed. Listen to this video, it was taken during the last compression test and you can see how it is trying.
http://picasaweb.google.com/102981577371855997692/Boat#

 

[6meter]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start. HELP!!!!

Every video the motor was turning fast enough for a compression test and for it to start. You might want to squirt some oil in the cylinders. The fuel might have washed the cyl dry with the amount of times you've turned this thing over. Would like to see and here a video of you trying to start the motor, after you check the timing, with the plugs in. FWIW, I ain't thrilled with push on compression testers. Where is the picture of the dizzy cap crack?

 

[Ursula]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

FOUND THE PROBLEM​

Checked timing which was fine. Pulled head off and this is what I found.......
Not a good thing....now decisions to be made. Thanks for everyones help!!!! You guys are AWESOME!!!!

http://picasaweb.google.com/1029815...authkey=Gv1sRgCN-DttaN5vD1uAE&feat=directlink

 

[metalwizard]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

WOW,

That looks like possibly detonation problems.. unfortunately looks like its rebuild time.

If it probably was pinging while running. maybe timing advanced to far. also as clean and shinry the one valve looks maybe you had a waterleak (internal) but doubltful .

Remember you cannot always HEAR detonation.

Best of luck glad you found the problem.

 

[Hansolo99]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

I think many of us were hoping it was something small, bummer. Well at least you found the problem........

 

[6meter]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

Gotta love a gal with pink toenail polish tearing down a motor! Well, not what you were hoping for. Both the head and piston got beat with something. PO drop something in there maybe? Detonation possible? Lean running condition. Carb needs rebuilt also.
Options..........
1. Sell as is.
2. Replace that bad valve, polish rough spots on head and pistons, O/H carb, put it back together and sell. Not really/morally correct though. Edges of piston might be peenned down some and rings might be stuck though. Not good.
3. If cyl walls are good. pull motor, replace 4 pistons, rings and bearings, send head out for repair, main bearings and keep it or sell it.
4. New replacement motor and keep it.
A 3.0 isn't used in cars so a junk yard won't have them. Finding one in a junk boat, bad hull or deck, is slightly possible.
What would I do? Selling a boat w/o a motor doesn't bring back much $$$$. I'd weigh the cost of the parts to fix it vs. buying a long block. Most would do a long block, but I can put a motor together. My time is free and would have all winter to do it. Our season here is over. Might even pull it out and pull #1 piston and see how bad it is......might be option 2.
It's your choice now. Remember that this forum is always here. Good luck!

 

[Challenger84]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

Man that sucks!
At least you didn't have to pay tons of money for a mech. to tell you that you need a rebuild.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

If you do decide toput a motor in it or rebuild that one. make sure you figure out WHY it happened so it does not happen again.

A lean condition could have been the culprit. timing, overheating amongst other things.

In the pictures it looks like the tops of ALL the pistons were "dimpled" or "Pitted" is that true?

Diesel fuel is VERY low octane, in other words it detonates really easy.
If the "mechanic" tried running it on diesel that may have done the damage.
you might have a leg to stand on for having them him pay for the repairs..
this might be where its worth taking into another CERTIFIED mechanic and have them look at it. if the damage was done because of the diesel.. you might be in for a fight. but you do have a case against them.

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

WOW,

That looks like possibly detonation problems.. unfortunately looks like its rebuild time.

If it probably was pinging while running. maybe timing advanced to far. also as clean and shinry the one valve looks maybe you had a waterleak (internal) but doubltful .

Remember you cannot always HEAR detonation.

Best of luck glad you found the problem.

detonation problems.. I agree.
looks like its rebuild time. Yeppers
Oh well gives ya a good project for the winter time..
Overhaul it and post pictures.. Women who can take the head off.. I want one.. Not really I love mine, but it's very cool.. You can do it..

 

[6meter]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

detonation problems.. I agree.
looks like its rebuild time. Yeppers
Oh well gives ya a good project for the winter time..
Overhaul it and post pictures.. Women who can take the head off.. I want one.. Not really I love mine, but it's very cool.. You can do it..

Agree! Pink toes and black fingers. Great combo!

 

[metalwizard]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

detonation problems.. I agree.
looks like its rebuild time. Yeppers
Oh well gives ya a good project for the winter time..
Overhaul it and post pictures.. Women who can take the head off.. I want one.. Not really I love mine, but it's very cool.. You can do it..

Yeah sounds like a keeper..

good luck. remember figure out WHY before you replace the motor..

Oh I live in Utah. so a second wife might be a good.. call me (J/K)

 

[Ursula]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

WOW,

That looks like possibly detonation problems.. unfortunately looks like its rebuild time.

If it probably was pinging while running. maybe timing advanced to far. also as clean and shinry the one valve looks maybe you had a waterleak (internal) but doubltful .

Remember you cannot always HEAR detonation.

Best of luck glad you found the problem.

Thanks Metalwizard!!! I haven't decided what I am going to do yet but I'll keep you posted.

 

[Ursula]

Re: 1st time boat owner for 6 weeks and it will NOT start.

Gotta love a gal with pink toenail polish tearing down a motor! Well, not what you were hoping for. Both the head and piston got beat with something. PO drop something in there maybe? Detonation possible? Lean running condition. Carb needs rebuilt also.
Options..........
1. Sell as is.
2. Replace that bad valve, polish rough spots on head and pistons, O/H carb, put it back together and sell. Not really/morally correct though. Edges of piston might be peenned down some and rings might be stuck though. Not good.
3. If cyl walls are good. pull motor, replace 4 pistons, rings and bearings, send head out for repair, main bearings and keep it or sell it.
4. New replacement motor and keep it.
A 3.0 isn't used in cars so a junk yard won't have them. Finding one in a junk boat, bad hull or deck, is slightly possible.
What would I do? Selling a boat w/o a motor doesn't bring back much $$$$. I'd weigh the cost of the parts to fix it vs. buying a long block. Most would do a long block, but I can put a motor together. My time is free and would have all winter to do it. Our season here is over. Might even pull it out and pull #1 piston and see how bad it is......might be option 2.
It's your choice now. Remember that this forum is always here. Good luck!

6meter you the Man!!!! Thank you so much!!! I haven't decided what to do yet but whatever I do I think I am going to remove the motor next weekend and pull out the #1 piston just to see what it looks like. I would rebuild and do everything myself but by the looks of things I think someone has already been in there and took the cheap way out. Layed hardwood floors, ceramic tile and remodeled my guest bath last winter so this winter I guess I will rebuild a motor and paint her pink!!! lol...I hate winter so it will give me something to do. Again, thanks for your time and most of all for not doubting me.