1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

shrew

Lieutenant
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,309
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

At the risk of beating a dead horse:

1) Check the capacity plate of the boat. The total weight is typically people, motor and gear. Don't go by the Number of People on the boat, go by the total weight. Again, don't forget to add the sum of the weight of all occupants, the gear and the motor. Then, don't exceed the hulls capacity.

2) Accelerating with the drive trimmed down is correct, then, once the boat comes on plane, start trimming it out. Someone earlier said you need to learn to trim the boat. In this case, you stated you started with the drive trimmed in. Trimming the drive out would raise the bow evern higher, so that is not the solution for this particular situation.

3) Smart tabs will significantly reduce bow rise and allow the boat to get on plane faster. Based on the average weights of occupants (you provided this info. so no offense), I would stongly consider some smart tabs for that boat.

4) Get the bilge pump fixed period. I would check the functionality of such safety equipment prior to departing from the boat ramp.

5) If the wake washed up over your transom, it is because you chopped the throttle too much. Yoiu need to gradually decrease throttle. chopping throttle too much can cause issues from swamping the transom on outboards to potentially pushing water up exhaust manifolds and into the the engine on an I/O.

6) Boat with an experienced friend a few times before taking the family out. Boat with the family before taking guests out. Get a feel for the boat and some experience under your belt.

7) You absolutely want to pull the drain plug once you have the boat up on the trailer. Leave it out while being stored and DON't Forget to reinstall it before launching. I had a friend who kept his boat keys in a small bag along with the drain plug. You HAD to put your hand on the drain plug to grab the keys and you had to grab the keys to start the boat. Key doesn't go into ingition until plug goes into boat. It would be wise to get the keys in teh ingition prior to launching the boat. Whatever works for you.

8) More weight in the front will allow you to get on plane better, so will less weight in teh boat.


Hey, we've all done stupid stuff. As time passes experience will grow. It's an ongoing process. All these replies weren't based on inate knowledge. Everyone has made similar mistakes along the way. As long as you recognize your limitations.
 

Philster

Captain
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,344
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

More weight in front doesn't get you on plane faster, but it might help keep the bow down to a more manageable degree when coming on plane.

Getting on plane means that you climb and overtake the bow wave you are creating. So, get your brain around this:

If you move forward you push water ahead of you. That water will stay ahead of you and under the bow (more or less) and that wave keeps the nose up. Now, knowing this, you can imagine that you need power to climb that wave AND to build speed to overtake it. Once this is done, you should start planing, provided you have enough speed on hand... and the engine should start to run up in speed (because it isn't pushing a ton of sea water ahead of the boat), which is about the time to pull back on the throttle to manage revs and trim the engine up/out a bit (which the engine will appreciate very much by revving a little more and affording you a chance to reduce throttle again).

Add power to get speed, get up on the bow wave, get ahead of it (planing speed) and pull back the throttle, trim 'er up and pull back again. You should find 'cruising speed' in here.

Do that but within the weight/load limits listed on the capacity plate.

I infer from your posting that the mechanic wanted the plug in so he could see what sort of water built up from your trip, which is pretty dumb given the fact that the bilge pump would ditch it. It's dumb in every regard unless he was on the boat and ready to get it to shore/trailer/etc as part of a sea worthiness test.
 

Andy in NY

Commander
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
2,109
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

sailors hornpipe, everyone else has pretty much been said, so i wont say it again.


but i will say this: DONT LET THIS DISCOURAGE YOU FROM BOATING. I jumped right into my first boat knowing very very little. my first trip to the lake resulted in the bumper being pulled off my truck, and me not going anywhere on the lake due to not knowing how to operate the controls. at the end of that miserable day, i was ready to put it in the front yard with a for sale sign. luckily my wife is understanding and talked me out of it. now i consider myself a knowledgeable boater, but not experienced. im still gaining that every time i go out.

like everyone said, find someone with some experience and get them to the lake with you and let them drive for a bit and show you what the boat can and cant do.


but the biggest thing is DO NOT BE SCARED OF THE BOAT. that is when you will be the most dangerous.
 

GatorMike

Ensign
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
902
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

More weight in front doesn't get you on plane faster, but it might help keep the bow down to a more manageable degree when coming on plane.

I respectfully disagree. When I was a kid I had a row boat with a 3 1/2 horse outboard. I could ride around the lake all day at full throttle and never plane unless I put a passenger up front. If I was boating alone I used to have to leave the tiller unattended and crawl to the bow to get on plane. Once there I could go back and steer. I have been in boats that were under proped, under powered or just plain overloaded that would take forever to plane unless you shifted weight.
 

Philster

Captain
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,344
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

I've seen a lot of boats/operators that think they are planing when, in fact, they just don't have the bow way up.

Planing is not equivalent to 'bow down'.

Planing is something else entirely, which I've explained already.

Maybe you were displacing water with the bow down -- I don't really know -- but you jump into a conversation with a boat (mentioned by the opening poster) that should plane out in 5 seconds or less given the hull and horsepower, and it breaks down into a 'move weight forward to plane faster discussion' and that screams, "There are a number of people not grasping what is going on here!"

Now I've got a 3.5 pony rowboater explaining planing. Stop the madness. 150 HP should climb and overcome the bow wave and start planing in seconds.
 

PuddleJumper

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
314
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

I have to agree with Gator Mike. When your power to load ratio is marginal, redistribution of weight can make the diff to get on plane. On my boat, if I have 6-7 people aboard I have to ask a couple of them to go into the cuddy until on plane. Then they come back once planing.
 

shrew

Lieutenant
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,309
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

Philster, calm down. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, right wrong or indifferent. If you say you can't get on plane faster by moving weight forward, then don't do it. When I have a lot of people on my boat, I will open it up and loose visibility due to bow rise and the boat never comes on plane. The RPM's are high and the speed is sub planing speeds. I move a few people forward and the boat comes on plane, the bow comes back down and the speed comes way up. I can then throttle back, the rpm's lower, the boat speed stays up, the boat is planing and people can start moving around.


I apologize for being an idiot. I had no idea I wasn't planing.
 

Thajeffski

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
890
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

ok so im a 1st time boat owner 17 1/2ft 1992 180 nitro fs /150hp johnson evinrude ob- went out twice before with my boat mechanic bud ( 30 years exp) and he was showing and directing me on how to drive and get on plane - and various other boat operating procedures- well went out sun on my own and gave slow boat rides to many choir girls of which my daughter is a part of -


they have a summer camp right on the lake front and every fathers day they ask for volunteer dads to take their boats to give the girls slow boat rides around the lake( over 200 girls in the choir)- they have many other activities going on also- well my daughter begged me to take my boat which would be for the first time on my own so i did and gave several rides- nothing major went wrong and all had fun - but let me lay out the minor problems

1. the lake wind was about 15 mph and choppy


2. on the first 2 trips with my mech friend we had no one in the back seat but during this event we were loading three people in the back seat plus 1 in the capts chair next to mine( wife) and my 14 yo 200 lb son up front in the bow- oh and im not light at 320 lbs

3. i could not seem to get the boat on plane i was told to start with trim all the way down- give it full throttle and start totrim up once on plane . so what happened was i got scarred not being used to going full throttle and when i tried the bow would go up so far that the transom would would start to swamp a little plus being in choppy water i was afraid of flipping the boat going full throttle- so i would shut the throttle down and the bow would drop and the water would wash over the transom- the switches on my panel are faded but still readable - so i switched the bilge pump on and the sidew hole which the bilge water comes out of was squirting like a water hose -now with my wife side seat driving and giving me directives (even though she knows nothing about boating)you know " go faster " why are you slowing down"


" just take off!" this in a no wake zone! any way during all this i forgot that the bilge switch was still on! and when i went to turn it off and on again it did not work so i lifted the floor panel to see if there was water building upad there was - so for safety reasons i turned for the dock and unloaded the passengers - there was a guy there that is experienced and looked in the back where the bilge is and said your bilge isnt turning - so i figure iburned it out by running it dry? right?


or it could be that on an 18 year old boat the bilge was just ready to give out? getting back to the trying to get on plane - dont laugh but i was scared - i mean with the bow so far up in the air and a boat full of passengers i just kept shutting down or slowing down so much that the boat would take on a little water - so i think that i didnt have enough weight in the front and with the choppy water and not knowing the limitations of my boat i was not willing to find out the hard way-


not to mention my mech friend had told me that if the water was choppy and i went to fast - i could capsize! oh and i did take a non functioning old trolling motor off the bow which i think weighed about 40 to 50 lbs it was heavy! now my wife kept saying put some people in the bow but i was hesitant since the boaters safety course i took said not to let people ride in the bow as it is dangerous- im not sure if it is illegal but dont want to take any chances - however the other boaters at the dock said i probably needed more weight in the front?

what do yall think / any advice? oh and the thing i dont agree with my mech friend about is he told me never to take the plug out ever ! but with all the water i wanted to and tried but it is the type that looks like a plastic screw with a flat head on it - i tried to turn it with a flat head - but it started to chip so i left it alone - my mech friend said to leave it alone so he can come over and see how much water got in there- but i am afraid cause i have read here that leaving water in the boat could rot out the wood and soak the floatation foam among other problems and i cant have huge money problems with the boat -


being a working class guy whos wife gets upset everytime i have to spend money on the boat ( like im the only one) so any ideas on any of this?


Ok, now that I fixed your seriously long run on sentence lets read this..

Alright.

Most important question, Where is this summer camp and is it full of college choir girls?? Like 18+ hopefully? I can fit 7 on my boat, I'd be glad to give rides!


More seriously, you overloaded your boat with weight in the back on a boat that has low sidewalls to begin with. That's all, nothing to fret about.

Go get a new bilge pump and limit your weight load to whatever the boat was designed for.
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

As to front decks--I stand corrected, if the bow is flat. I let passengers sit on the flat front casting deck only if there legs are bent down and feet on the floor, to stop a slide-off. I thought his might be designed the same way. But in any event, packnig the stern and not having something forward isn't going to work; the fewer people you can carry up front, the fewer you should carry in the back.


I have always used my passengers and gear as moveable ballast to assist with planing, in boats from 12' to 22. You assist with planing ("hole shot") by nose-down the trim tabs--same thing as putting weight up there.
I also run a full boat over shallow water to get on a plane.
Heck, I nose-down a boogie board in the surf to catch a wave, which is planing, too, by pushing down on the "bow".
 

HotKetchup

Seaman
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
59
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

Im no nautical wizard, but Ive had lots of boating experience in my time. Small to large boats. One thing you can bet is theres always something to learn. It does sound to me like you needed a few outings under your belt before you became a carnival ride for 200 "other peoples" kids.
Dont quit learning - read a few books, lots of info here too, and experience is all you need.
Dont let the negative things scare you away from getting out there and learning how to get it all right.
Id like to hear some positive reports from you next time. Good luck.
 

Stachi

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
1,671
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

may I add....320 lbs on you , and a 14 yr old son who wieghs 200+ pounds... maybe you need to work on those contributing factors...do some trimming at the dinner table...
 

HotKetchup

Seaman
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
59
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

may I add....320 lbs on you , and a 14 yr old son who wieghs 200+ pounds... maybe you need to work on those contributing factors...do some trimming at the dinner table...

Really? Totally unnecessary. This is about his boat and what he can do to/in the boat to make it function properly for a better experience....I know much bigger guys that routinely take out smaller boats than that with no problems at all.

Get over yourself....
 

Rscardina

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 3, 2010
Messages
513
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

may I add....320 lbs on you , and a 14 yr old son who wieghs 200+ pounds... maybe you need to work on those contributing factors...do some trimming at the dinner table...

Stachi...dude!!!..what are you thinking?. That was frigid cold and so not cool..

I live in MA. Home of the MASSHOLES..but even I would not venture where you did...

shame on you..
 

GatorMike

Ensign
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
902
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

I've seen a lot of boats/operators that think they are planing when, in fact, they just don't have the bow way up.

Planing is not equivalent to 'bow down'.

Planing is something else entirely, which I've explained already.

Maybe you were displacing water with the bow down -- I don't really know -- but you jump into a conversation with a boat (mentioned by the opening poster) that should plane out in 5 seconds or less given the hull and horsepower, and it breaks down into a 'move weight forward to plane faster discussion' and that screams, "There are a number of people not grasping what is going on here!"

Now I've got a 3.5 pony rowboater explaining planing. Stop the madness. 150 HP should climb and overcome the bow wave and start planing in seconds.

I'm not an engineer I won't pretend to understand the dynamics of planing but I am a lifelong boater and I know when my boat is on plane. I also know that although planing is about overtaking the bow wave it is more about lift. Just maybe shifting the weight forward decreases the angle of attack therefore increasing lift the increase in lift would decrease drag due to having to displacing less water allowing the boat to overtake the bow wave faster....just a non engineers theory to explain what actually works.
 

Fl_Richard

Lieutenant
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,428
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

If a 14 foot boat is going over 15 MPH it's on plane.... or its a submarine.
 

Philster

Captain
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,344
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

I'm not an engineer I won't pretend to understand the dynamics of planing but I am a lifelong boater and I know when my boat is on plane. I also know that although planing is about overtaking the bow wave it is more about lift. Just maybe shifting the weight forward decreases the angle of attack therefore increasing lift the increase in lift would decrease drag due to having to displacing less water allowing the boat to overtake the bow wave faster....just a non engineers theory to explain what actually works.

I stand by my assertion that people often think that lowering the bow = planing.

I stand by my assertion that lowering the bow doesn't always help planing when I read far too often the details in these sort of threads. 150 HP in a boat like that... and you need to play ballast games? Guys, seriously... you want to argue the finer points of planing, let's get a boat that has real planing problems and help someone out. We got a guy who crippled the planing ability of a 150 HP engine/planing hull setup with sheer irresponsibility.

Yes, in some boats you play the weight distribution game. Fine... move weight forward to help planing. I just find far too often that many boaters think that 'bow down' = planing, and others who have no idea that one of the biggest reasons they aren't on plan is that they aren't applying enough power.
 

GatorMike

Ensign
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
902
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

I stand by my assertion that people often think that lowering the bow = planing.

I stand by my assertion that lowering the bow doesn't always help planing when I read far too often the details in these sort of threads. 150 HP in a boat like that... and you need to play ballast games? Guys, seriously... you want to argue the finer points of planing, let's get a boat that has real planing problems and help someone out. We got a guy who crippled the planing ability of a 150 HP engine/planing hull setup with sheer irresponsibility.

Yes, in some boats you play the weight distribution game. Fine... move weight forward to help planing. I just find far too often that many boaters think that 'bow down' = planing, and others who have no idea that one of the biggest reasons they aren't on plan is that they aren't applying enough power.

You must know some dumb boaters because I would be willing to wager that you would have a hard time finding JUST ONE SINGLE boater in my area who does not know when his boat is on plane.

That said you jumped all over my *** because I respectfully disagreed with you, you tried to impress people with your knowledge of the dynamics of planing. Now you change your assertion from lowering the bow doesn't help planing to lowering the bow doesn't ALWAYS help planing. All I am saying is don't come in here with something you read in a book or online somewhere and try to tell someone who has been boating for 50 years that he does not know when a boat is on plane.
 

Philster

Captain
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,344
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

Sound like you are the one getting on someone's ***.

Stay with the thread and don't ignore the issue at hand: That we are trying to help someone with a 150 HP engine and hull that should easily plane figure things out.

The thread went all over the place.

Further, it is not necessary to quote my entire post when it's the post right above yours. If you disagree, find a way to manage your emotions.

Yes, I know some really dumb boaters who think that they are planing just because the bow is down. For some reason, that upsets you to the point of being insulting. Why are you surprised? If you read this thread from the opening, watch these forums or live in the real world, that assertion is correct: There are dumb boaters! STUNNING! Actually, they might be smart, but they do dumb things or believe dumb things.

And people do all sort of things to cajole their boat into behaving a certain way when it might not be needed, provided everything else was done right. None of these statement are shocking or warrant your reaction.

Happy boating.
 

Philster

Captain
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,344
Re: 1st time out on my own / what did i do wrong?

Yes, in some boats you play the weight distribution game. Fine... move weight forward to help planing. I just find far too often that many boaters think that 'bow down' = planing, and others who have no idea that one of the biggest reasons they aren't on plane is that they aren't applying enough power.

Here, I concede, but for some reason this concession is met with hostility. A dialog can work this way. One person makes a point, one concedes, etc.
 
Top