2 questions for my conservative friends

[bootle]

Why is it in interest of Americans that:<br /><br />1. The issues of marriage with regards to same sex couples be addressed at the federal level of government and not at the state level of government?<br /><br />2. The issues of abortion be should taken out of the hands of the federal government and returned to the states?

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

So question one should be at the state level so you can have your way... but question 2 should be at the federal level so you can have your way?

 

[KaGee]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

The answer to both... because the Judiciary can trump the will of the people if so inclined.

 

[PW2]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

No, it is because we have a Federal constitution that guarantees certain individual rights, regardless of what any one state, or the majority of voters in that state, think.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

So that the judiciary can keep the religious majority from forcing their beliefs on everyone....<br />& insure that common sense prevails over religious fanaticism

 

[rogerwa]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

"common sense prevails over religious fanaticism"<br /><br />Who's common sense should we use in this debate?<br /><br />To me it is common sense that a man should not marry a man. It is also common sense that once a baby is growing you do not kill it for convenience purposes. I am no religious fanatic.<br /><br />You also used the term religious Majority. All I needed to hear was majority. So the court is there to equalize the minority to majority status? I thought they were there to interpret the constitution.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

Originally posted by Haut Medoc:<br /> ....& insure that common sense prevails over religious fanaticism

You conveniently ignore the judicial fanaticism that has been going on for the last 40 years. It is called judical legislation!

 

[bootle]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

The arguement that the Bush adminstration is making is, the same sex marriage issue is too important to be left to the states to decide, where as the issue of abortion should be left for the states to decide.<br /><br />To further clarify this topic my question is, why the contradiction?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

 

[QC]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

Originally posted by Haut Medoc:<br /> So that the judiciary can keep the religious majority from forcing their beliefs on everyone....<br />& insure that common sense prevails over religious fanaticism

Oh, so stupid and prejudicial my friend. I don't debate abortion, so let's apply your comments to the same sex marriage debate . . .<br /><br />Let's take common sense first. That one is the simplest, only takes two words: The Plumbing<br /><br />Then let's take the more difficult one. Are you suggesting that I have to be a religious fanatic to believe that the common sense of the plumbing discussion, and the result of the intended use of that plumbing, do not indicate at least a predisposition to hetero unions?<br /><br />Oh, and finally (with all due respect for JB and his daughter which we have discussed separately, and I want to remind I wish for nothing but peace and happiness for all humanity), if other-than-hetero marriages are acceptable, why not polygamy? Please think for a moment before responding as most simply scoff at that question, but I believe there is no argument for same sex marriage that cannot be used to support legalised polygamy.<br /><br />Sorry to go slightly OT. For Darth, whoever said consistency was required when you are trying to get what you want? Isn't that the litigious way; interpret, tweak and bend the rules until they are applied the way you want?

 

[bootle]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> No, it is because we have a Federal constitution that guarantees certain individual rights, regardless of what any one state, or the majority of voters in that state, think.

A very good answer but, why do we retain state constitutional laws if the laws of the federal govt' is "lord of the manor"?

 

[bootle]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

HM, It seems that you have nothing intelligent to add to this topic, perhaps you did not comprehend the title of this thread prior to commenting.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

Plumbing is a stupid arguement.....<br />Obviously there have been ways to circumevnt that "problem"....<br />Why would you care, other than it either offends your religious beliefs or your homophobia?<br />Polygamy is acceptable....<br />Just not in Christian/Judeo society....<br />That rule was made up by the ugly guys who wouldn't get any wimmins if it were allowed ....<br />One shouldn't waste one's time on worrying about who is doing what behind closed doors....<br />Give me one good arguement on why gays shouldn't marry, that does not have a religious fanaticism at it's core.....<br />For the record, you can insert Republican in place of religious anywhere in my statements.....JK

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

Sorry, Darth, for the hijack... <br />You are right ....<br />My response was to RF & Kg's responses...JK

 

[QC]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

The argument against, is that there is no benefit to society et al . . . I rest my HM rebuttal. Wow dude . . .

 

[JB]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

The majority of voters have been wrong in the past when it comes to their will vs. the will of our founding fathers (The Constitution). <br /><br />To paraphrase, all citizens are entitled to the same rights and freedoms as all other citizens, without regard to differences in genes, heritage, religious affiliation, gender, etc, etc.<br /><br />In my view that entitles individuals to make their own decisions about their bodies and pre-life attachments. It also entitles any two people to enter into a contract to become a family and to the legal benefits of that union.<br /><br />I remember when it was the will of the majority to segregate African heritage Americans from all others, when women pledged to love honor and OBEY in the marriage ceremony, when it was the will of the majority to forbid persons of different "color" to marry. They all claimed it was a "moral" issue and hid behind their Bibles.<br /><br />I think it is the business of states to make laws, so long as those laws do not violate Constitutional restraints. I believe that The Constitution forbids invasion of the privacy of women and discrimination against persons because of their romantic orientation.

 

[bootle]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

" For Darth, whoever said consistency was required when you are trying to get what you want? Isn't that the litigious way; interpret, tweak and bend the rules until they are applied the way you want?"<br /><br />QC,<br />Are you saying that consistency of laws should not apply?<br /><br />...and that the status quo of interpreting, tweaking and bending the rules until they apply to the interest of the few is, or should be permissable?

 

[QC]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

That was sarcasm . . . Consistency IS what the Judicial branch is for.<br /><br />My point was that for me or my representatives to push for X in one way, does not require that I have to push for Y in the same manner . . .

 

[bootle]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

Originally posted by QC:<br /> That was sarcasm . . . Consistency IS what the Judicial branch is for.<br /><br />My point was that for me or my representatives to push for X in one way, does not require that I have to push for Y in the same manner . . .

Point taken.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: 2 questions for my conservative friends

These are both states rights. Murder is prosecuted at the state level. Marriage is legal under state laws.<br /><br />This whole gay marriage / abortion thing is smoke and mirrors so the sheeple really believe they are voting for something important. These two issues only really effect a small minority of people. Plus they have had 30 yrs to make federal abortion laws and havent done squat.<br /><br />This is so we dont realize are leaders are a bunch of crooks.<br /><br />"Please ignore the man behind the curtain."<br /><br />Ken