2 Stroke Oil Thread

[alldodge]

Posted on another's thread than realized I'm breaking a rule and hyjacking, so.... deleted my post

Anyone ever use the synthetic stuff like amsoil, stihl in a 2 stroke OB?


I've used The Syn at 100:1 on small (chainsaw, rototiller) 2 stroke for years and never had an issue, and the plugs don't fowl out

 

[cyclops222]

I remember tests being done on how little oil is needed for 2 stroke O B motors.
up to 300 to 1 was tested and declared safe........By who ??
Would I go to less than 100 to ! ?
NEVER !! I ran that for several all summer long years. No sign of oil burning.

 

[Pmt133]

Dad said back in the day guys used to do that. So 80s/90s. They didn't blow up more or less than anything else did at the time but typically people who manage their equipment properly didn't have issues to begin with....

 

[dingbat]

I’m too cheap for full synthetic and to hard on stuff to mix lite.

I run 50:1 YamahaLube 2R racing oil in everything except the golf cart.

The golf cart is designed to run 128:1. I mix 5 oz. to 4 gallons which ends up at 102:1 .

 

[jimmbo]

Put it this way, Amsoil is not a TCW-3 Certified Oil, so using it might be a Risk.
I don't know about the Stihl Oil, what I remember about their Oils, was that they were for Air Cooled 2 Strokes, which run considerably Hotter than Outboards and thereby place different Demands on the Oils.

 

[Scott06]

Posted on another's thread than realized I'm breaking a rule and hyjacking, so.... deleted my post

Anyone ever use the synthetic stuff like amsoil, stihl in a 2 stroke OB?


I've used The Syn at 100:1 on small (chainsaw, rototiller) 2 stroke for years and never had an issue, and the plugs don't fowl out

I started running amsoil in our old evinrude 2 strokes

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-100-1-pre-mix-100-synthetic-2-stroke-outboard-oil-ato/?code=ATOBC-EA&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20677132515&gbraid=0AAAAAD4pZOj1ijEu4BbcE7OAGJb8cVGfj&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqaXB6q6FkAMV7DDOBx3M0zmkEAQYAiABEgLtE_D_BwE

never ran it as thin as the specs 100:1 even though for a time back in late 70s evinrude specs 100:1. Kept plugs clean and smoke down. didnt put a ton of hours on it but had no issues.

 

[Scott Danforth]

about 25-30ish years ago, after Dad left Manitowoc Cranes, he worked in the test lab at Tecumseh working on 2-stroke motors for both small outboards, lawn and garden and industrial applications where they were testing various gas/oil ratios. he did the pre-assembly inspection, and did the post test tear-down and inspection in their test lab for about 6 years

they tested various oils at the time and various ratios up to 300:1. there were a few synthetics, however I believe most were dino squeezings per dad

what I remember when talking over beers, fishing, cars, etc....

the motors ran really clean at the 200:1, however died relatively quickly. at 100:1, they didnt quite meet the emissions standard, were close to lasting forever at steady state load, however showed signs of wear in when they were doing over-load and load pickup tests

at 50:1, they smoked a bit, didnt pass emissions, however were well lubricated where unburned oil would drip from the exhaust

I dont recall the ratio that they concluded (between 70 and 80:1) where the motors would survive the typical abuse with most of the oils at the time

since then synthetic oil has come a long long way, where companies like Stihl require you to use their oil. My assumption is that its more to remain in compliance with emissions than a lubricity issue.

Amsoil has some really good 2-stroke OB TCW3 oil. While I would personally run a tad closer to 75:1, they advertise it at 100:1. I would have no issue running Amsoil

 

[flyingscott]

Amsoil recommends 75-1 for outboards under heavy use. Which means anything other than cruising.

 

[cyclops222]

Todays oils are fantastic compared to any older oils. EPA super lean burning cylinders demand the best under the WORST conditions. Turbos on most engines send temperatures up a lot when flored to pass or towing up long hills.

 

[Scott06]

Amsoil recommends 75-1 for outboards under heavy use. Which means anything other than cruising.

That is about what I was running my old Evinrudes on. Almost zero smoke and very clean plugs. Had a 1975 15 hp , and a 1973 9.5 hp kicker.

I looked it up again. It was in the 1980's that Evinrude labeled the 15 hp and possibly others for 100:1 for a short time and discovered they had issues under heavy use /high rpm and changed it back to 50:1.

This spring I gave the 9.5 to my neighbors teenage son along with a 12 ft tinny. He was keeping it up on a drive on float made for jetskis and didn't tie it off, boat slid off over night and dunked the motor. It wasn't running particularly well before this as it sat for about 8 years. I set the points, rebuilt the carb, and I am amazed how well it runs, one pull starts... caught a lot of lake trout with my grandparents trolling with that engine when I was in my early teens..

 

[flyingscott]

That is about what I was running my old Evinrudes on. Almost zero smoke and very clean plugs. Had a 1975 15 hp , and a 1973 9.5 hp kicker.

I looked it up again. It was in the 1980's that Evinrude labeled the 15 hp and possibly others for 100:1 for a short time and discovered they had issues under heavy use /high rpm and changed it back to 50:1.

This spring I gave the 9.5 to my neighbors teenage son along with a 12 ft tinny. He was keeping it up on a drive on float made for jetskis and didn't tie it off, boat slid off over night and dunked the motor. It wasn't running particularly well before this as it sat for about 8 years. I set the points, rebuilt the carb, and I am amazed how well it runs, one pull starts... caught a lot of lake trout with my grandparents trolling with that engine when I was in my early teens..

Thats cause OMC oil was not up to the task. McCulloch did it successfully in the 60s with their own oil.

 

[matt167]

Oil that is not TCW3 rated is actually better oil. Air cooled 2 strokes need oil that burns off at a higher temperature. Theoretically that means that in a water cooled engine, all of the oil that should burn off, will not.

Lawn Boy ( OMC owned/ invented until the 80s ) had their own brand of oil which was TCW rated. The engines are air cooled

 

[racerone]

Going from 50:1 to 100:1 does not seem like it was based on scientific research.-----If I saw going from 24:1 to 41:1 I would say yes.----Boardroom decisions based on the fact that folks really do not understand what goes on inside a 2 stoke crankcase !!

 

[dingbat]

Turbos on most engines send temperatures up a lot when flored to pass or towing up long hills.

Own two DI turbos......no need to "floor" either. Both produce max torque (470 lb-ft. and 310 lb-ft.) under 2,500 rpm.

Neither vehicle runs any hotter than my NA vehicles although both are spec'ed to run heavier oils than their NA counter parts

 

[jimmbo]

Oil that is not TCW3 rated is actually better oil. Air cooled 2 strokes need oil that burns off at a higher temperature. Theoretically that means that in a water cooled engine, all of the oil that should burn off, will not.

How is it better? Oil for Air Cooled Motors does not meet the Requirements for Water Cooked Engines. Detergents are Different too

 

[racerone]

Oil goes into a 2 stroke engine to LUBRICATE the internals.----You really want the oil to stay INSIDE the engine as opposed to it burning off.

 

[cyclops222]

Water temperature gauge in Turbo cars does NOT SHOW the rise of the engine oil temperature.

 

[dingbat]

Water temperature gauge in Turbo cars does NOT SHOW the rise of the engine oil temperature.

Through the marvels of modern engineering, both vehicles are capable of monitoring and displaying engine and transmission oil temperatures on the info display.

Water cooled intercoolers and EGR typically keep coolant and oil temps within 10F of each other.

 

[Mc Tool]

Oil goes into a 2 stroke engine to LUBRICATE the internals.----You really want the oil to stay INSIDE the engine as opposed to it burning off.

There are other differences other than the bushes / bearings , also there are pistons with g oil retention grooves in the thrust faces and some without . I would have thought that the thrust faces / bore area would be the hardest to lube , so there are different requirements there ?.
I had a Kawasaki 2 stroke MX bike , ran Castrol TTS at 50:1 and I dont think that thing ever burnt the oil judging by all the black goop dibbling out of the exhaust .
I think its possible that manufacturers allow for peeps to use budget oils .....like if they say "50;1 tcw3 oil " what they mean is that the crappiest tcw3 oil will be ok at 50:1 , and the ole Seagull at 1/2 pint to the gallon of 30w oil .........they know some peeps are gunna put any old **** in there .... so 16:1 it is .

 

[Pmt133]

My sump temps run at radiator temps... in the winter it is actually hard to get the oil warm enough! 150F is about it unless you idle and have little air flow. The marvels of modern technology.