2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

jim dozier

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,970
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I don't know why anyone is surprised at the degree of confusion and bewilderment on this issue. A couple of comments on why this issue will never go away as long as there are 2 strokes. (And if they go away the issue will be reborn with some other product).<br /><br />If you are selling a product in a market where there are many competitors and no real trade secrets there are only a few ways to distinguish yourself in the market. You shout really loud. You make product positive statements that can't be confirmed. You put it in attractive packaging. You price it competitively or you price it exhorbitantly hoping to associate it with high end value. You contract with a manufacturer for a stable piece of the market. You design small, poorly controlled, comparisons with pre-arranged outcomes that appear to show your product has some benefit that the other's don't. In short you do all the things that make buyers brand conscious and willing to buy the black bottle or the blue bottle over the grey one.<br /><br />What you don't do is set up well designed, unbiased (conducted by personnel with no association with the product), double-blind (where none of the personnel directly conducting or reviewing the results of the study know which product was used where until all the results have been tabulated), baseline controlled comparisons (a baseline comparison might be the base lubricant without the special additives in question) that pit your product directly against the other competiting products. And the reason is you don't wan't to spend a lot of money to determine what you already know and have successfully spent marketing dollars to convince the consumer otherwise, that the difference between your product and the competitor is small or unmeasureable and mostly in the mind of the consumer.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hasbeen, here's the key...both plugs show the same resistance at ROOM temperature. Heat is the element you cannot simulate.........the breakdown occures with heat. You won't notice an RPM drop until the rest of the ignition system has done all it could do to fire the plug..at that point things go down-hill quick.<br /> Everyone wants to compare 2-stroke plugs to automotive, but look at it this way--the fuel mixture is not carrying oil through reed valves-into the crankcase, and then pushed through the ports on top of the piston.<br /> 2 and 4 strokes have piston rings of course, but the oil control ring works in a different manner on a 4-stroke. <br /> The plugs just plain catch hell on a 2-stroke, because they have to burn the oil with the fuel.<br /> Look at an old worn-out car engine in motion.....smokes like crazy, and fouls plugs on a regular basis...this is the best way I can explain it.......... :)
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

To Dave the electrical engineer...about this statement:<br />"As far as the film and corrosion resistance, a true synthetic is more tenacious than petro oil". <br /><br />The warranty manager (BSME & MBA)for OMC International Commercial Division (Bahamas, South America & Bermuda) told me different. He said corrosion problems were happening from the use of synthetic because the lack of film and cling properties. Especially in southern climes with high heat and humidity. This guy saw plenty of of motors and had to make the call on disputes. He also told me the use of synthetic was not practical for most boaters and to use it only for racing. <br /><br />Aside from that, plugs are also affected by compression.
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I use Mazola made from maize, 100% pure, cholesterol free. :) :) :)
 

ob

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Aug 16, 2002
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6,992
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Clanton,You might want to add a laughing face at the end of that statement.Someones apt to take you serious and smoke a motor.<br /><br />An infinity reading from an ohm meter when used from a sparkplug terminal to the ground strap is only infinity in direct relation to the range of resistance being read from whatever range of ohm meter that you are using.If you used a mega ohm meter on an increased gap due to plug wear ,you would find that the resistance is indeed higher which is what poses the strain on the ignition components.
 

AUGIDAWG

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
189
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Ob is exactly right.<br />Resistance at high voltage is a lot different then reading with a DVM.<br />Every atom becomes conductive at a certain voltage. Like air. That is why you see a spark.<br />But, if you hold a pair of DVM probes in the air, you will see a full open.
 

Hasbeen

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 29, 2003
Messages
167
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Amsoil exceeds API TC, NMMA TC-WW2, TC-W3, and JASC FC! Meaning it will protect your engine durring off season! <br /><br />When was this test done?? And what product was it done on! If it was very long ago there were not any Synthetics that were TC-W3 rated!<br /><br />Your remarks I beleive are out dated!!<br /><br />Amsoil is a remarkably superior Synthetic oil!<br /><br />Enough said on this topic!<br /><br />Hasbeen
 

spete

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
168
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Looks like i'll be changing from YamaLube to SuperTech since i already routinely use the ring free to decarb anyway. Now that i know it's a Shell product i have a lot more confidence. I checked the on the manufacturer of YamaLube and it's based in Australia ... part Texaco/part something else. $15 a gallon is exorbitant and maybe if demand goes down they'll bring the price down. Too bad there are no good alternate sources for parts!
 

BillP

Captain
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Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I would like to see which spec says how long an oil protects parts in 95% humidity. I doubt it is printed by Amsoil or any other authority. <br /><br />Every other outboard mechanic out there makes the same claim about his "own" oil. I've been asking this question over 30 years to ob mechanics and the answers haven't changed...only now we have other players. This isn't a slam on the mechanics but tells me there can't be that much difference in the rated oils. I still use whatever the eng mfg says because second guessing them is beyond my capabilities.
 

Gold Bear

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 26, 2001
Messages
224
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

1stoutboard <br /><br />This is always hot topic. So many of the guys on this forum get very worked up about this subject.<br /><br />I have a 30 year old 115 Mercury. And I have operated outboard motors for longer than that.<br /><br />After reading some of these post I think it is a miracle that the oil we used 30 years ago didn't cause the engines to violently explode after the first minute of operation!!<br /><br />I believe that any TCW-3 oil is much better than the oil that my old Merc first used.<br /><br />In my opinion I feel the most important thing to do is to make sure the oil / fuel ratio is correct, the engine is in proper tune, and the engine is well maintained.<br /><br />Many of the oils on the market are service proven and time tested. These arguments over "my oil is better than your oil" are petty.<br /><br />If you buy the most hyped / expensive oil and then ignore the tune and maintenance of your engine you are asking for trouble. At the other end of the spectrum, if you buy the cheapest oil and keep your engine in tune and well maintained you are going to be alright. As with many things in life, the truth of the matter is probably somewhere in the middle.<br /><br />All in all the disussion of these opinions are great. All of the information discuued will help you decide what oil you want to use for your engine.<br /><br />Regards to all,<br /><br />Gold Bear ;)
 

BW23

Seaman
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Messages
67
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

TCW 3 of course is a minimum rating that mfg's require.<br /> Most of the OEM oils far exceed these ratings, produce less carbon and offer more scuffing protection to the cyl and rings.
 

missed_shot

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
40
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

How good is the Quick-Silver brand oil ?? :confused:
 

LubeDude

Admiral
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Messages
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Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

You have to ask after reading all of this??<br /><br />No, really, Id have to say that it is one of the better Dino Oils! Although Im one of the synthetic people myself! :D <br /><br />LubeDude
 

catfish1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
683
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

i use pennzoil synthetic blend! if walmart is out of it i'll use the supertech. i pull the plugs about every 20hrs or so, i have not seen any difference in the way they burn. every time i pull the plugs, they still look new, regardless of the oil i ran.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
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Jun 29, 2003
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Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hello, everyone!<br /> I have used nothing but OMC oils in my outboards, with the exception of a short time I used Quicksilver. (same quality).<br /> I have a 1997 Jonny 115 with about 75hrs on it now and have monitored compression every 10 hrs. to see when it would stabilize. <br /> From the inspection at 40 hrs, it has remained the same-all within 2-4lbs. with no trend evident.<br /> In this eng., I have used only J/E XD-25.<br /> I just broke down and bought a gallon of super tech from Wally world.<br /> I pumped all fuel out of my tank, and have refilled with super tech/gas mix. I plan to run 20 hrs. in the next 2 weeks, and intend on monitoring compression every 5 hrs. through this period. don't know if anything will show-up, but I spend alot of time at WFO, and I will post results as I continue with this.<br /> BTW, my Dad has been with OMC up until 1998,and he strongly believes I'm crazy to run anything but what I have been- he thinks I will pay for it later.........It's time to take some numbers.<br /> All comp test will be done in the shop, with eng at operating temp before I pull plugs........ :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

walleyehed

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Jun 29, 2003
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Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I forgot to mention the reason I have 75hrs. is because I just overhauled this eng........ :)
 

Oil Man

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
76
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Kenny,<br /><br />Just curious -- Why did your engine require overhaul?<br /><br />Dave
 

Knightgang

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Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
1,428
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Okay, from everything that I have read in here, it sounds like many of you are concerned about what happens to the oil and the lubrcation quaility on the internal parts of the engine during the winter "sitting" period. In all of my experience around outboards, running them regular is one of the things that can help them run longer. The less the sit, the better they will be. So durring the winter, pull out your ear muffs, and the ones for the engine, and crank it up to run for at least 15 to 20 minutes at least every other week. <br /><br />Where I live, we still have prime weather to operate for about the next 6 weeks, and I am usually out every weekend. I still crank my Suzuki 115 in the middle of the week. My truck runns nearly everyday and I have no problems with it, what makes the boat motor any different.<br /><br />I use a High mileage (name brand)oil for my truck because it has been around the block a few times. Helps keep it going at top performance, even with the 231,000 miles on it. Regular maintence is the key, and I plan to treat my outboard the same way.
 

ezeke

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
12,532
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

To Catfish1<br /><br />I run a 1976 Johnson 115, mostly trolling for long hours. I've never found an oil that changed the plug fouling that I always got until this season, when I started using the Penzoil premium blended synthetic oil. I am completely satisfied with this product.<br /><br />I think that Shell owns Penzoil, and I don't think that they would permit misstatements on their website: Penzoil Premium Blended Synthetic
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Well, thats refreshing to hear someone actually admit that he was experiencing plug fouling with Dino oil but gets less with a synthetic blend! Just think how good a full synthetic would be??<br /><br />LubeDude
 
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