2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hey, guys! Probly be monday night before I get to run again, but I will keep you updated with the switch-back. At this point, I don't know what to think........

 

[1stoutboard]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Good Luck Kennys, can't wait to hear about your result next week.

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

In 2 strokes the mixture may have to be changed as the oil ratio changes. Higher ratios = leaner jetting. Changing between syn & pet oils may also need mixture changes because of viscosity. It isn't necessarily bad oil properties that cause poor running.

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Billp.... It don't work that way...50:1, is 50:1, I don't care what oil you use, and jet change effects the TOTAL mixture, not oil mixture.....

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Thank you kindly but my statement is accurate...maybe my post wasn't clear. <br /> <br />Oil mixed in fuel is one (not the only) factor of how much fuel can be delivered through a jet (or injector). Viscosity AND ratio make a difference on metering (jet size). If you think 2 stroke jetting is engineered without regard to oil vis and ratio you are mistaken. Hint, no oil = smaller jets...Hi vis oil and lower ratios = larger jets. Change oil vis with the same ratio through the same jet and you MAY create an improper mixture (easily identified with adjustable mixtures).<br /><br />Let me quote off the printed label on a pint of Bel-Ray synthetic racing oil...which I have case of left over from my motorcycle racing days. Here it is:<br /><br />Ouote: "Leaner jetting may be required with higher ratios" Unquote. Sometimes changing from pet oil to synthetic oil requires leaner jets too.<br /><br />This is old news in 2 stroke motorcycle racing. Visit the Daytona pits during bike week in Feb and ask the 2 stroke road racing mechanics about it. <br /><br />Sometimes I really wonder.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hey Dakotashooter2,<br /><br />in the Aug. 2000 issue of Bass and Walleye Boats they sent TC-W3 oil samples to a lab to see if there were any differences in them. Each one was unique except for Exxon and Walmart, which the same results.

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

BillP, your statement may be accurate on motor cycles with one, maybe 2 carbs. <br /> I am no rookie to this either...I raced snowmobiles for team Yamaha, with Tim Bender. Due to massive altitude/temp changes, we tested jetting in more ways than most would ever think of........<br /> Your statement is valid in the case of VERY small jetting, not in the modern jetting involved with a carb per cylinder set-ups- at 50:1, it's irrelavent with the jets bing 60-100thou in size....yes, the .015-.040 size, maybe. <br /> p.s. Who runs different ratios??????? It's not in the 2-stroke carburated outboards.......

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

BillP<br /><br />Sorry to have to say this Bill, But your information is incorrect!!<br /><br />Amsoil 100-1 is rated by the NMMA: TC-WII, TC-W3, JASCO FC!<br /><br />You really should to try it, as just the performance increase is worth it, Your motor will sound like new again!!<br /><br />Hasbeen

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Yep, I'll buy on the jet size but it was the only mechanical item I could think of for oil changes causing rough idle. I think sythetics are typically lower physical vis than pet oil. If you had an adjustable low speed jet it would be interesting to see if the idle could be smoothed out. I'd put money it would.<br /><br />Who changes ratios?...check one of the message strings about Amsoil. Mid 80s OMCs had 100:1 for a few years too. Some people with old motors (pre 50:1) are upping ratios because they believe the new 50:1 oil means it's ok increase such as 24:1 to 50:1.

 

[lakeman1999]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Who changes ratios?...check one of the message strings about Amsoil. Mid 80s OMCs had 100:1 for a few years too. Some people with old motors (pre 50:1) are upping ratios because they believe the new 50:1 oil means it's ok increase such as 24:1 to 50:1.

Having purchased a new poulon chain saw (a few years back), and then posesing three of them, all reccomending a different oil/gas mixture (one modern, one about 25 years old, and the other about 20 years old), along with a few other tools, taking yet another mixture, I called poulon customer service, and asked them what a person is to do, having multiple tools manufactured by them, and all reccomending a different oil/gas mix. They stated that "ALL" poulon, or weedeater (owned by them) tools are to be fueled by 40:1 fuel mix, regardless of the date of manufacture, and the original reccomended fuel mix.

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hello, again! My PC is down at work, so I've been unable to play here....anyway, I'm home for the weekend and I'll be kennys insted of Walleyehed for a few days and be happy with it.<br /> Ran this last week 3 times, about 3-4 hrs run time each. Still using up the supertech. It's been somewhere around 20-25 hours now...compression has NOT changed, but I do have idle problems. This thing won't idle in gear now to save your butt!!!!<br /> I have to be quick to advance throttle slightly to keep it running, and NO!, I will not touch the timing to suit the oil. <br /> At this time, I can honestly say I notice zero difference at or above 2500, up to 6000R's, but it takes 2500r's to get the stumble out.<br /> I got a new case of XD-25 thurs. nite, so I will run as much of this superstuck...eeerr supertech out as I can get, and start again with the J/E. I will let you know if stumble clears up, or stays with me....I'm just as curious as anyone.... <br /> As for "Who changes ratios", I was referring to current, modern day outboards....<br /> Interesting on the 100:1 on OMC....my Dad was part of the crew that tested the first 135hp @ 100:1-Ran 2 days hard to start with, and tore it down. Don't remember how long that went on, but I can tell you at least 2 years before it was listed for 100:1. Seems like Dad said the plugs lasted alot longer, but they also were being very precise as to ounces of oil added to 6 gal fuel....8.2 good, 7.5 bad.....makes quite a difference after 100gal gas......

 

[JasonJ]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Its interesting you are havng those problems with Supertech. I have been running the crap since I have owned the current motor I have (69 Merc 1250). It could be my motor is more tolerant, but it has always run perfect, the plugs have never been fouled or even dirty, and I run it at 50:1. I do think I'll buy the good Mercury Quicksilver stuff to see if there is a difference. As good as the motor runs, it would be interesting to see if it can be better, but other than smoke, I doubt there will be much of a difference. I do sometimes wonder if I can get more longjevity out of the motor if I go with the better oil. I have no problem spending the extra money, I have always just figured the Supertech is all I needed. The labeling does say that it exceeds the standards, not meets or exceeds, so I figured that meant something as well. I will try the good stuff in spring and we'll see.

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

JasonJ, thats the best part of this deal...If it works for ya, by all means, use it!<br /> Personally, I feel comfortable with OEM oils, but HAD to try out something else, just because of the disscusion at hand, and I can tell you now, I made a mistake. My engine ran like a well balanced piece of equipment should, and I'm very particular of "how" my engines run. When I changed oils, that smoothness slowly went away.<br /> There is, and never will be anyway they can package the exact same additives in a gallon of oil for 10 bucks a gallon less, it just won't happen.<br /> If my problem clears up with J/E XD-25, I will have accomplished what I set out to do...prove to myself what I already knew.<br /> The supertech SMELLS different, the VISCOSITY is different, and the LUBRICITY is different.<br /> My point here is that I have no reason to ever use any other oil than the 2 I KNOW work in my outboards, and I don't care what anyone else has to say about it.....there IS MOST OBVIOUSLY A DIFFERENCE. I can set back and smile everytime I see this topic come up again, knowing what I do now.<br /> To be fair, I will post as to whether or not my idle problem clears up.<br /> You'all have fun fightin' this one out, and I hope everyone comes to their senses.......

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hey Hasbeen, <br />Thanks for the response but do you really think Amsoil is TCW-3 certified? If so it may be you are a product of creative advertising. Reading Amsoils web site leads one to your conclusion doesn't it? Here is the link to the NMMA site with a list of who is really TCW-3 certified. Amsoil isn't listed.<br /><br />I won't use it in an OB no matter how good the product is because I endorse only what the ob engine mfgs spec to use and have never gone wrong following OEM recommendations. No TCW certification and I don't use it, period. I'm perfectly ok if others don't agree and my motors run fine with my personal oil choices. <br /><br />However, I may try Amsoil in my lawn equipment when my synthetic Bel-Ray supply runs dry...that's about a gal so it won't be soon. <br /><br /> http://www.nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/registeredoil.asp?bhcp=1

 

[1stoutboard]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I can't agree with Kenny more . They do smell differently. Supertech has the smell of heating oil to it, which lets say Mercury does not have or others don't have. When you open the container and smell them they all have a similar sting to their smell , then you can't help notice the smell of different additives to them. And that's what makes the difference.

 

[robtmyer]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

I read studys on motorcycle oil and they say use<br />ther oil from the manufacture. but study showed that regular car oil & motorcycle were chemicaly the same. all you were doing buying theres was paying $4.00 or more a Quart and lining there pockets. any 2 stroke should be fine. how would they know if you didn't use theres? Also take this<br />for what it is worth. I bought a used outboard that was a 2 stroke and the old man who own the boat repair shop said Mercury and others always wanted him to endorse there oils but he said the best thing is a quart of 30w Non-detergent oil to six gallon tank of gas. I ran the motor for 10 years this way and had no trouble with the motor at all.but always do what you feel best with and since the motor is fairly new stick with 2 stroke oil.

 

[kenneths]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Part of the "TC-W3" is the oils ability to stay in suspension in fuel at rest. So, I say BULLSH*T to running 30W Motor oil in any 2-stroke.....that's a set-up for unrepairable damage, but do as you wish.........

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Thanks Bill, I will certainly look into it!!<br /><br />Hasbeen

 

[Hasbeen]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

BillP<br /><br />Boy, have I got egg all over my face!!! Im man enough to admit when I am wrong though!!<br /><br />It says, Recomended where these specifications are required! <br /><br />Amsoil will however stand behind the product when it is used as they prescribe though, and I have never seen it fail! I will however keep using it as I really like the performance!<br /><br />Hasbeen

 

[BillP]

Re: 2 stroke oil, Topic will not go away !

Hasbeen...no skin lost here. It isn't your fault the advertising led you to believe the oil was certified. I read it the same way but still wanted to confirm with the NMMA. <br /><br />No matter what Amsoil's warranty, advertising or individual users say, I don't do non TCW-3 certified oils in my outboards because the motor mfgs don't endorse it. Right or wrong, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.