200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

Dexloy

Seaman
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
67
The motor is a 89’ Johnson 200 V6 VRO, a new VRO unit has been installed, compression check is good, fuel is good (no air leak in lines and fresh), spark is good (checked by Lance). The wiring harness plug was corroded and has been cut out and replaced with a connector bar. CDI # CD6 113-4037 Butterfly Loop. The work was done by myself and at Aquarius Marine in Miramar, I trust Lance and the crew there did a good honest job. Lance says he does not know what's wrong and I can’t afford to have him guess at it.<br /><br />Symptoms:<br /><br />The motor starts easily and runs well for the most part. Here is an example, Start the motor at SI ramp and let it warm-up, leave the ramp and head to the bait receiver at about 60% 3000 RPM for a little and then open it up to 90% 4500 RPM (cruse), throttle back, get bait, head back out, now the motor sounds fine however it will not develop more that 3000 RPM, if the throttle is left there and nothing is done she will run like that for some amount of time (varies) then start to develop RPM’s again with no intervention at all and clime straight to 4500. Nothing seems to affect a return to normal, I.E. starting or stoping again, letting sit and cool, shifting in or out of gear. Removed and inspected spark plugs and they are wet, no surprise there. I also get terrible fuel consumption, like ½ mpg.<br /><br />Possible Problems:<br /><br />S.L.O.W. is a speed reduction mode that kick in if the temp gets to high and is controlled by 2 senders, one on the port head and one on the starboard head. (tan & black wires) that go to the power pack. I believe that it “shuts down” 3 cylinders until the motor cools. <br /><br />Shift interrupt switch, I know this switch shuts down one bank of cylinders to relieve pressure on the clutch dog momentarily.<br /><br />I have 2 manuals on this motor, Selco and Clymer (sp) and have been doing a lot of Internet searching on this and found a lot of good info but no solutions. After reading some posts yesterday I thought it was a no brainier “it MUST be the interrupt switch” sticking and then after time vibrating lose. I located the switch on the motor and started to inspect and remove it, tracing the wire back to the “brain” to un-hook them and I was disappointed to discover that the switch had been bypassed and just plugged into its self, one ground wire to the block and the big rubber pin plug connected together (closed circuit), DOH!!!!!!!!!!! I could not locate where this should have been connected in the wiring harness or brain. I think it should be reconnected to avoid excess wear and lower end failure. No wonder its hard to shift. So now I am leanning toward the S.L.O.W but am afraid that since this is an intermittent electrical problem I will not get the feed back needed just by testing the circuits with a ohm meter when there are no symptoms present. Reading the shop manuals I thought there were 2 power packs on the motor but I only fnd the one CDI located at the top of the motor, I hate electrical issues any help on this would be great and I will keep updating the info as I find it. I will get the motor info off the tag tonight and confirm the year and model but am fairly certain that I have it right. Is there also a mode called “Quick Start” I think I read something about that but don’t recall if it could be the culprit. <br /><br />Anyway I know with all of your help we will get it figured out and fixed before the season starts. <br /><br />So here is a question, the shift interruped switch is not conected but I would like to use it (I like having all the things the engineers thought up working) but can not find where the thing should have pluged into the harness. It has one of the big rubber plugs with a pin inside it, 3 wires from the switch, black (ground) and yellow/black (male) yellow/black (female) the pin is coroded so I would need to replace it. This is not the original motor for the boat and I think that the shop that retrofit it to this boat cut alot of corners on the install. There are a few "extra" wires that have been cut at the "main bar" we are using as a "harness plug" but none of them match in color to the switch, I do have a wire digram and can acualy read it <br /><br />And there is a oily, kinda grity, just gunky feel to the whole motor, I guess 2 strokes can have some blow by and stuff but I would really like to work on clean stuff, is it alright to get some engine cleaner from the auto parts store and spray it on then hose it off like I use to do to my car engine compartment? <br /><br />Come on guys, talk to me here, I need some help, I am starting to get discuraged. I really want to do this myself but do not like the feeling of being blindfolded as to what I am looking for. I HATE ELECTRIC STUFF!! <br /><br />Well here is some more info:<br /><br />Took the hose off the pick up tube at the tank, took the hose nipple off, then the 90elbow so I could pull the tube out.................well in the elbow there was a bunch of alumtter asdn tank be drill chips!!!! the screen stoped them as it was made to do and however I looked down the opening to see it also filled with chips....got them out and them I understood where they came from..... I then took the sender untit off os I could look in the tank.....now next to the tank is a hole that is pluged....when I look in the tank I see a steel tube that goes down and bends 90 and goses back where I cant see..it starts where that plug is!!! the first hole...the fuel pick up...looks as if some one has just drilled out something.....no tube to remove....now back to the tube coming from the plug (rusted solid in place, alum tank, steel plug) looking in the tank at the tube it has been DRILLED and CHEWED..... WTF so I guess they could not get the tube out so they drilled a new one?<br /><br />Now I think I said alot but this is a cut and past from 3 or 4 posts on a diff forum befor I found this one.<br /><br />carbs look nice and clean, small flats on the roller in the throtlle linkage easy fix. <br /><br />so what do you think I hould do about the tank and pick up tube, is that where I shold start?<br /><br />Thanks, <br /><br />Allen
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

I don't think that a 89' model 200 had the S.L.O.W. or quickstart feature.Did you get any over temp alarm or lights?How did you determine that you feel that it is an ignition issue?It very well could be ,but I don't see any info that leads me in that direction.Sometimes a powerpack will fail when up to temp under the engine cover and show intermittent spark to its fed cylinders.You could try applying some artificial heat (ie hair dryer)to each powerpack and coils while running on hose and see if you can detect a loss of fire to one or more cylinders.Have the carbs been cleaned ,kitted and adjusted recently? Remember ,we can't see or touch this engine.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

Eliminate the fuel tank, for testing. Borrow a six gallon tank and see how it runs.<br /><br />You may have some issues with fuel/oil exiting the engine before the cylinders. Do you see any obvious signs of leaks? I'm not a fan of spraying degreaser all over the place. Just clean it up as best you can and keep the degreaser as far as you can from electricals.<br /><br />Once done with that, get a timing light. Attach the inductive lead to each plug wire, one at a time, while the engine is acting up. If the light does not flash, you have a dead cylinder. Once you know which one(s) are giving you troubles, the diagnosis should be come much easier.
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

The SLOW system came out in with the 1988 models.<br /><br />The overheat temp sensors signal the power pack to interupt the engine timing and limit the speed to around 2500 rpm. It does not shut down a bank of cylinders.<br /><br />If your manual says it has 2 powerpacks, then you have the wrong manual. Only the '86 and '87 models had 2 packs.<br /><br />It sounds like you have one "jury rigged" motor, and chances are it will be a can of worms, until you get a factory manual and are able to set up everything like it should be, then troubleshoot the system step by step. Finding someone who is familiar with that motor would be a big help to you.
 

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

Running on a 6 gal. can is a good idea, but keep in mind this engine need's a 3/8" fuel hose. If the compression readings are good, I would do a running test on the ignition system. Starting from the beginning, charge coils, sensor coils, pulse pak. To do this properly, you need a peak reading volt meter, with a PL-88 resistor, Your marina should have one, and know how to use it. Any time an engine has had system changes, or components removed, without the proper manual, or test equipment, you can dance with it a long time, and spend a lot of money. Many times, needlessly. If you get to the bottom of this problem, and are going to use the existing built in fuel tank, do a fuel pressure, and vacuam test on the system. As I said before! you need a 3/8" feed line on this engine.
 

Dexloy

Seaman
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
67
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

Thanks guys, let me correct a couple of things first and slow myself down, I was told it was a 89' but the frezee plug says J200CXCC so it is realy a 88', corect? Do I need to get the Johnson/OMC manual? not the 2 I have, selco and cylmer? Has any one got any idea what the heck they did to that gas tank? and what to do about it? At first I thought it was a fuel starving issue, and ran a deck tank but the conectors seemed to restrict the flow even tho they were 3/8 ID. A freind loned me them and I got some quick connects to hook it up with. He used them on a 200OB that way and his ran fine. <br /><br />But first thing first, I got to get teh gas to teh motor, I am off to fix that now.
 

R.Johnson

Rear Admiral
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

As for the gas tank! there is a valve, called an anti-syphon valve. This could have been rusted in, and that is what they tried to replace. This valve has a check-ball that stops fuel flow if the fuel line is broken. If it becomes blocked by gum, or varnis, it will restrict fuel flow.
 

Dexloy

Seaman
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
67
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

I have removed the rusted plug now and the tube that is in it is easy to remove from that hole but I think the other end is in the other pickup tube hole and I am going to remove it when it stops raining
 

Dexloy

Seaman
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
67
Re: 200 Johnson 88' VRO, I am lost

BTW the tank did not have a anti-syphon valve installed but I will replace one after I clean the tank. I have found a replacement pick up tube I think, guess they call them withdral tubes.
 
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