2000 E150FPXSSM LOOSES IGNITION ON START UP

Crosbyman

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found this ... maybe.... go to the link and read all of it

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Evinrude Ficht: Intermittent No-Start SOLVED

I have a 2000 Evinrude Ficht 200 HP that had a nagging, annoying intermittent problem.

I do a lot of drift fishing around bridges, pilings and jetties, and the motor always starts and runs flawlessly... 98% of the time. But on occasion, when trying to restart, you get nothing. No fuel pump, no starter, nothing. Just the tach letting you know you have key power. But then, after sitting maybe 15 minutes, it would restart normally and run great, until the next time. Maybe an hour, maybe 10 mins, or maybe a week later. Very random. But of course, this happens at the worst possible times, when the tide is sweeping you toward the rocks or pilings. That really shakes your confidence!

After checking the basics, replacing the wiring harness and key switch and a number of other things, I could not figure it out, so I sent the EMM in to DFI, since it controls pretty much everything. Got it back, and the motor ran even better after the updates. Nice, All fIxed, right? Well, the next spring, it started doing it again. I sent the EMM back on warranty, and they could not find anything wrong. So Chet at DFI decided to send me an entirely different EMM, just in case it was a cracked board or something strange. Great customer service!

I reinstalled the EMM, and everything was great again. I thought it was fixed this time, but about a week ago, it started doing it again. AARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!! This was making me crazy!

With a completely different EMM, it HAD to be something else. So right there on the water, I pulled the cowl and started shaking wires. Nothing. Then I pulled the cover to the fuse panel, or the PDP (Power Distribution Panel) and I started pulling fuses and replacing them. Nothing. I went back to shaking wires, and I bumped the PDP and the fuel pump kicked on. AHA!

Focusing on the PDP, I bumped it again, and fuel pump came back on. Cracked PDP? Well eventually, I narrowed it down to one of the square relays, similar to a tilt/trim relay.

I went home and pulled the PDP from my 2001 parts motor, and stuck it in my truck. Next trip out, motor started and ran well, but on maybe the third drift, it wouldn't start. I pulled the relay, and it was HOT.


YESSS!!!! You can't imagine how excited I was to finally have a smoking gun!!! The socket was clean, with no sign of arcing, so I felt good that it was the relay itself. I swapped out that relay, and have had zero issues since, over several trips and dozens and dozens of start cycles. I feel very confident that this was the problem the whole time.

NOW I feel 100% confident in this motor, like the last one I had. Great motor, very powerful, Outstanding on fuel, and now very reliable. Finally!

Interestingly enough, now I'm getting 43 MPH+ at 5800 rpm, same 17p prop. Thanks to Chet at DFI for the updated software!

So if you have a Ficht or an Etec that occasionally won't start, check the relays @ your PDP. I have never found this information anywhere, so hopefully this is helpful to someone.
 

Pazi

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Been reading all this again... ok I had missed the fact you said T&T works....

the engine runs fine so ECM works and it is not a HOT ECM issue causing the problem

ODD that the speed of turning the key ON impacts the starting logic incl the starter that seems to stop for a few minutes.

we are back to basic trouble shooting . for example when the key is in START the starter selenoid should at the very least turn the engine over if not ... then it is either not being told to do so via the selenoid control wire path or a ECM "no go" decision . this is where a wire diagram becomes important to backtrace ... On ETEC some components are ground driven by the "EMM" .... versus the conventional way of turning on things witha a BAtt supply... generally 12v .

can't help much more and hopefully FICHT are not all R.I..P. if that is the only possibility left.
Thanks again. I'm not giving up yet. Doesn't seem like something would get hot in 2 sec. to shut down ignition ; but I guess that is possible. I haven't investigated the key switch itself yet. Perhaps I can find the 'inbound + power to the switch" and see if is dead when the shut down occurs? I assume that the power comes to the key switch, then relays it back to the ECM?
 

Crosbyman

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there are a left side and right side drawings of the 115 FICHT on the net ... not to clear but you can copy and paste into POWERPOINT sheets

see top left corner of the page

I suspect the layout is very similar to the 200 hp may help chasing your problem

 

Crosbyman

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this isl likely the main power relay under switch control....my best guess.... see wires going up and right to fuel pump under ECM control

relay seems to feed the ECU ECM EMM ....with power and then the fuel pump should start up when turn the key ON (pump under ecm control so it must be powered up to drivethe pump)

I suspect if the pump does not turn on the ECU won't either hence a dead engine because the ECU controls the selenoid grounding cct.

check it's operation (click) when switching ON fuel pump should start up to if not....well maybe it is a problem or the power relay gets get HOT and fails till it cools down as per previous link story above

good luck chasing :)
 
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Pazi

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there are a left side and right side drawings of the 115 FICHT on the net ... not to clear but you can copy and paste into POWERPOINT sheets

see top left corner of the page

I suspect the layout is very similar to the 200 hp may help chasing your problem

That main power relay looks suspicious. Do you know where it is located at?
 

Crosbyman

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sorry I have no books just web access try some utubes searches

most relays are on the PDP but this one seems bolted... listen for clicks
when truning the switch ON ....

did you read the link I posted about a hot relay...
 
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Pazi

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sorry I have no books just web access try some utubes searches

most relays are on the PDP but this one seems bolted... listen for clicks
when truning the switch ON ....

did you read the link I posted about a hot relay...
Yes, i read everything you sent. Tomorrow, I will search and check the power relay. I think I may have seen it under the ECU when I lifted it up looking around last week.
 

Crosbyman

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when you find it and if no obvious flaws shows up follow the main power wire (See diagram ) directed to the ECM and go measure the B+ voltage at the ECM .

while you are at it why not power everything down.... open up the main connectors to the ECM and check for oxydation. contact cleaner spray could help out . the simple action of openneing and replugging the connectors can be enough to improve things.

repower up with the key . IF EV diag is to "connect" the ECM must be powered.
 

Crosbyman

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see modern 200 hp etec layout
 

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  • ETEC wiring 200 hp 2007.JPG
    ETEC wiring 200 hp 2007.JPG
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Crosbyman

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check everything assoc. with power relay feed source, 10 amp fuse contacts and the fuse itself (try another one)
pdd contacts to fuel pump etc...

hold the key at START while DEAD .... have a buddy tap the PDP panel gently but smartly
1651071552058.png
 

Crosbyman

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more info...


a love story... read it all especially post#26 onward :) and post #33
 

Pazi

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I pulled the 10A fuel pump fuse. Engine will start with quick switching the key, but still fails to start when I delay in the on position of the key. When I went to buy the boat, a couple of weeks ago. This fuse was blow as we tried to start it. I replace the fuse and it started right up then. As I've mentioned, I've run the engine (on the hose) for many minutes getting the cyl. head temp to about 150F or so. And it would consistently start up on the quick switching.
 

Crosbyman

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and patience brings joy.... that fuse blew for a reason I would focus on it ...
hook up a test lamp or two at suspect points while dead and running state. see if anyone looses power as you fiddle with the key.

clean that fuse socket contact pins with a folded emery or fine fingernail file
did you try tapping around.. while dead ??
 

Pazi

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and patience brings joy.... that fuse blew for a reason I would focus on it ...
hook up a test lamp or two at suspect points while dead and running state. see if anyone looses power as you fiddle with the key.

clean that fuse socket contact pins with a folded emery or fine fingernail file
did you try tapping around.. while dead ??
Yes, I tried tapping, removing every connection, cleaned all fittings, even removed power supply box. I found what looked like a tip of a screw protruding through the back side of it and looked like it was against the metal frame which holds it to the engine. Ground it off and covered it. I have no idea what it is. Maybe a screw to hold the terminal inside the box as it was right behind the lower prong of the fuel pump relay. I had high hopes that was it, but, nope. Still fails at about 3 seconds. I'm tempted to put it in the water and give it a try as long as it will start with the quick start. I do have a kicker motor on the boat. I don't what else to do other than send the ECU in for repair. BUT, it starts and runs good the quick start way. UGGGG.
 

Crosbyman

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maybe a call to the ECM folks can give you more hints

maybe they have heard of this ECM issue from other users

meanwhile i'll ask a expert on the ETEC board for his opinion

he is in Australia so answer will likely come back tomorrow :)

btw....does you EV diag connect when the engine runs ???
 
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Crosbyman

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manual has a good section 4 for electrical testing

4-23 covers the testing of the switch itself which you may want to investigate. I assume you are familiar with using a volt -ohm meter VOM

if not there are lots of tutorials on utube.

4-50 and 4-51 has a clear diagram of the electrical circuit of the 200HP
 
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Crosbyman

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backtrack... been reading all this
" My wife could feel the the ignition/stop relay fail as I left the key in on position. It would click on at first and click off a moment later with a no starter result."

you mentioned your wife hears/feels the main ... "or a relay" click ON when the key is put to ON then the same relay clicks OFF (times out) after a few seconds .

can you specify exactly which relay it is.. ? if the above is correct you realy need to check the control wire to the relay

relay internal coil windings are generally grounded on one side physically with a bolt or a piece of wire ..bolted to ground . the other control wire comes from a key contact or another relay .

on the failing relay ... check the control wire for voltage as you turn the key to ON....and see what happens voltage wise using a VOM or test lamp when it "clicks off" after a few seconds.

A test lamp or a simple light bulb is actually a good means of testing whereas a VOM may measure a 12v yet it won't reflect the actual quality of the current carrying capacity of the wire being measured.

This happens when oxydation in the key contacts introduces a high resistance and kills the amps flowing across the contacts. Both voltage and amps are needed to energize the relay.

I could be in left field (been there before) but more and more I suspect the key .
If the inbound key voltage stays then the relay seems flaky !
 
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