2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

[tropical36]

My 2001, fuel injected 200HP 2 stroke salt water series OB quits at WOT or at about 4800rpm in a very short period of time. I mean it kills the engine completely. It immediately starts again and runs fine as long as you hold the speed down and I usually cruise at 3500rpm. It also did this on one other occasion while attempting to get up on plane. I'm leaning towards a fuel delivery problem, but am wondering why it starts up again so easily, unless it doesn't have to be completely out of fuel at this speed to kill the motor. I haven't had this boat that long, ...a 20ft. Century CC,.. and didn't experience any problems when I got it, but I did leave it on the lift last summer while on a 3 mon. vacation. I've run it periodically since then and didn't have any problems until recently. Before, I really get in to this, I'd appreciate some ideas on how to proceed. Thanks in advance.

 

[yamamarinetech40]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

If you don't know EXACTLY what you are doing with this motor, you should let a shop go through the fuel system. But you CAN check the fuel/water seperating filter in boat(make sure it's 10 micron) for water, contaminates by pouring into glass container(get all of it out, water on bottom remember), then the filter in cup on engine....but you have a filter in VST tank also, and the way you talk, you don't need to be fooling with this...but it's your motor, your ten grand....don't run this engine lean anymore or BANG...instant trash.

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

OK....well, so far, I haven't learned anymore than I already knew and hopefully this forum is one that shares real technical knowledge, instead of the...take it to the shop routine and you don't know what your're doing. If that's the case, why even have have such forums.
Hopefully, some one else can add some real information as to all possible causes with a step by step procedure, other than....do some routine maintenance. I'm not sure if these kind of answers mean...I have no clue...or...you should give us pros all your money....and we've certainly dealt with a few of those in our lifetime.

 

[cousinabe]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

this link may help you troubleshoot your issues. read the whole thing.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=270983

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

this link may help you troubleshoot your issues. read the whole thing.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=270983

Thanks...this was the kind of tech. data, I was looking for and just hadn't gotten used to navigating my way around here yet, but I was going to post this topic as an original anyway, mainly because mine runs perfect until it shuts down..and I mean like instantaneously, in which case you can start up again and cruise wo/a problem at say 3500rpm, but not at full throttle.
Now, for beginners, I did clean out and replace the paper filter in the bowl along with the fuel/water filter separator. Both were contaminated with who knows what. I also added some anti-ethanol stabilizer. Now to locate and check this VST filter, but maybe after a test run, which I hope to do tomorrow.

 

[cousinabe]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

If you plan on servicing this motor yourself, do yourself a favor and get a yamaha OEM manual. A diagnostic test lamp called a winky blinky is also very useful for testing the sensors.

Continued use of an EFI motor not running correctly will eventually cause mechanical failure. If the motor is not running right,fix it or get it fixed. You have the potential to blow a piston.

here's another useful link.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=176860

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

If you plan on servicing this motor yourself, do yourself a favor and get a yamaha OEM manual. A diagnostic test lamp called a winky blinky is also very useful for testing the sensors.

Continued use of an EFI motor not running correctly will eventually cause mechanical failure. If the motor is not running right,fix it or get it fixed. You have the potential to blow a piston.

here's another useful link.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=176860

Good advice and more good information. We're sticking with this until we cure it, one way or the other. Now, whats with all this fuel pump diaphragm failure? Is this common with all makes or just a Yamaha thing?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

this is a very simple speed density fuel injection setup but can be very costly for a beginner.
your describing a loss of fuel pressure on the rail for whatever reason.
normally either a restriction to or in the VST.
unlike a carbed motor if rail pressure suddenly drops the engine usually shuts down almost like you turned off the key.
yes, its that sudden and violent.
99%of ALL 2 stroke outboards regaurdless of brand use a pulse operated rubber diaphram type low pressure fuel pump.
ALL can fail.
symtoms on your motor will be rich at idle usully will throw rainbows on the water surface and idle stupid and lean at high speeds just before the rod come out of the block.
remember this engine lubricates itself with the fuel/oil mix coming from the VST. blow a pump diaphram and the excess fuel,like all other brands, is dumped into the crankcase. in this case before the oil system creating a very very very lean oil to fuel mix.
the 01 200 was a 2.6L motor with 2 lift pumps and pumps lasted but I still say replace/rebuild them every 3 years as a maint item
kinda like water pumps,T-stats and pressure control valves and VST filter cleanings and ad nauseum.
to proceed I would use the yamaha fuel vacum system tester to record flow and vacum takes 15 min and can be done with the boat on the trailer without the engine running. then once I knew supply was ok I would test the fuel pump and rail pressures at WOT using test wheel YB1626 with the boat backed into the water and the gearcase submerged.
this test will take 20 min or so including prep time.
most Yamaha EFI issues can be found in less than 1 hour with the proper test equipment and knowledge of what system is being tested.
if you dont have the correct equipment its always possible to smoke a piston while playing.
the cost of fuel system repairs will remain the same regaurdless of piston replacement costs.
if your dealer doesnt have the equipment or a trained staff that can at least show electrical and fuel systems certificates on the wall please find a dealership that does.
will save time,money and customer frustration.

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

A lot of good info here, which I wasn't aware of, so at least I now know whats going on and what I might be in for, which makes it easier for decisions like whether or not to keep pushing or take it to the shop.
At this point, I'm wishing that I still had carburators like my old Evinrude. Right now, I'm still waiting for some good weather to get back out there and find out what I may have accomplished. The weather is decent enough, and even good for many, I guess, but I've been down here in the tropics too long.
Thanks to all who have contributed so far.

 

[grid]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

Don't we all yearn for Model As...but that ain't a happening thing. I had a situation similar to yours but only found the problem with the laptop, watching the fuel pressure. Turned out to be the high-pressure fuel pump. Even with 50 years' experience, I couldn't have done more than guess--and throw parts at the engine--without the computer diagnostics. It's always great if you can do it yourself, but marine manufacturers' equipment is proprietary, meaning your Snap-On Dude and Auto Zone will NOT have the software or cables. Without an OEM service manual, the software gives you unintelligible answers, and vice-versa. Save yourself time, money, and frustration before you waste a season throwing wrenches. Take it to a dealer who has a good rep. Be nice and maybe they'll give you tips for other diagnoses, saving you $$ in the future.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

this motor CANNOT be accesed with a laptop and does NOT monitor any fuel pressures. do it as I described or poke-N-hope.
your choice.
even the HPDI doesnt require a laptop to test sensors just a DVM and the correct service manual and a small amount of knowledge.
the HPDI can use the winky blinky just like the OX66 and just like the OX66 all sensors can be tested with a simple 12 dollar DVM from radio shack and the correct service manual.
the test harness adapters just make it easier but you can use small paper clips in a pinch carefully slid up the wire at the connector.
with 50 years of experience and no system knowledge your still likly to chunk parts at it.
if there is a sensor,a sender or a switch its there for a reason. find out why and what does it do.
on the 2.6L HPDI fuel sensor must read above 2.8-3.2V at all times, on the 3.3L HPDI it must read 3.2 or more at all engine speeds.
if lower before I replaced a 1200 dollar pump I would check the supply to it as the VST filter or inline filter could be clogged.
I have over 30 years of this work and another 6 in the US Navy's advanced electronics field.
it wont subsitute for HPDI system knowledge on both the 2.6L and 3.3L HPDI systems as the former was built from 2000 to 03 and the latter from 04 to present.
03-04 were odd years as the 2.6 used a single driver to 04 and the 3.3 never used an O2 sensor.

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

I know what you're saying Grid and maybe the reason I always have to go through this routine, is because I've seen so many would be experts charge mucho dollars to do just what you said. Throw parts at it or say that it needed next to everything to fix it. Now, in my experience, when finally getting to the root of the problem where I am the expert and many times not the expert, I find that after all it's all said and done, it boils down to one or maybe two on rare occasion, this one thing that's causing all your problems.
Anyway, like I said, I'm at least getting enough of an education here to know what I might be up against, so that hopefully, I won't make a big boo boo with a repair shop or myself.

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

rodbolt...very good description of what's needed for troubleshooting and I've begun a file on what you guys have contributed. This stuff will come in handy if and when I have a discussion with a shop mechanic if nothing else. I'm looking into purchasing a shop manual now, so we'll have it for nighttime reading and future use.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

you may be dissapointed with the information your manual gives you.
unlike merc and some OMC manuals there are no descriptions as to how or why anything works or is even there.
that requires an understnding of a closed loop basic speed density EFI setup.
nice thing is they ALL work the same regaudless of engine application.
that injector doesnt know what its on or where its at,nor does the fuel in the rail or the crank position sensor or the TPS.
all these sensors simply give information as to ,engine RPM(speed) throttle angle, atmospheric pressure(density) and engine tempreture cold running fuel correction.
the O2 sensor feed back is also for a fuel volume correction.
all these sensor feed the ECU,ECU is a rather stupid on/off truth table device.
5000 RPM sounds quick, multiply that times 6 cylinders and you now see the ECU can control spark timing and fuel injection timing and volume at 30,000 times per minute.
that sounds even faster, but electronically it means the ECU spends a lot of time whistling and waiting.
so study some about basic closed loop EFI and it works about the same.

 

[Yamajoe]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

[the test harness adapters just make it easier but you can use small paper clips in a pinch carefully slid up the wire at the connector.]

thanks for this tip Rodbolt.

 

[grid]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

My apologies. I believe my analogy was misinterpreted by Rodbolt, whose knowledge I never meant to impugn. I said I had a problem SIMILAR to yours, adding that without the proper proprietary diagnostic equipment and service manuals, you're making life difficult for yourself. I should have added that interpretation of the results, which includes auditory, is even more important than having the equipment. You say "cuts off;" a tech with experience may run the engine and hear the tiny rap that occurs just before the engine "locks up" due to piston seizure caused by any number of things, like a thermostat stuck open, aftermarket oil, stuck rings--things that are not necessarily fuel-related. But simple semantics have you chasing a rabbit that isn't there. A tech who has a good rep has been servicing Yamahas for a long time. A Yamaha service sign might only mean the dealer gets the engines as a boat package and doesn't have a clue what a metric wrench is. If you're lucky enough to live near a reputable dealer, have him diagnose it physically. He could find that just because of the way you described it, all he really needed was to aim a temp gun at #1. But, he had winky-blinkies, laptops, connectors, and factory service manuals in case it was fuel-related. Again, Rodbolt's knowledge and experience may be dead-on, but I still feel the few bucks you spend to have someone physically diagnose it will be money well-spent.

 

[grid]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

Dummy me: I went back and re-read your posts about cleaning filters and finding they were contaminated with who-knows-what. I PRESUMED (dummy me!) that you had run the engine on a separate fuel supply to eliminate your tank as the problem source, whether it be the pickup, strainer, anti-siphon valve, or primer bulb. Did you? If not, it's a cheap place to start diagnostics. Make sure the separate fuel supply can give the engine all the gas it needs at WOT.

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

UPDATE: Finally got out on the water and after stopping in the the shallows, to clean out the speedo pickup tube. I took off across the bay, keeping my fingers crossed as to whether I had fixed anything at home...and low and behold, she couldn't have run any better. Without one of the trim tabs working, and both of them up, I recorded 43mph @ 5100RPM. Correct or not, she didn't falter, not once. I thought sure I'd be into the VTS tank before it was over with, so every once in a while, you win one pretty easily. Total cost was approx. $40, including the ethanol fuel additive.
Thanks to all who contributed to my education.

 

[cousinabe]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

what did you do to resolve the issue?

 

[tropical36]

Re: 2001 Yamaha 200HP dies at WOT

what did you do to resolve the issue?

Like I said up above somewhere..... I did clean out and replace the paper filter in the bowl along with the fuel/water filter separator. Both were contaminated with who knows what. I also added some anti-ethanol stabilizer...
Since the weather turned wlindy and cold, I wasn't too anxious to get out for a test run, but finally did so today.