2002 Ficht EMM swap

[Luckalee]

Can I exchange emm's on my twins for troubleshooting? Also, which plug on the engine is the test connection?
Thanks

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Not really. The coefficients for the injectors aren't the same.

Trouble shooting is done with the diagnostic SW, a laptop and a shop manual.

 

[boobie]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Stick with what Wilde said. These aren't the old carb/magneto days anymore. If you don't have the equipment take the mtr to a good dlr that does.

 

[Luckalee]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Thanks, thats what I suspected. I have the software and the manual. All my testing points to the EMM but being able to swap them would just make it 100% sure before I send the EMM for repair.
Dave

 

[boobie]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

If you have the lap top, software and ect what kind of codes are you bringing up on the lap top as far as problems on the mtr ?

 

[Luckalee]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

No codes. Twice engine just died while on plane and wouldn't restart. Replaced plugs and filters after the first time and after many turns it started. Last trip it ran fine and still no codes. Swapping the emm's seems like a good way to eliminate as a source but it has to fail again first. BTW I called DFI and the tech said there is no problem switching EMM's and starting the engine.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Did you ask the DFI tech if the injector coefficients had to be changed if you swapped EMM's? Of course it's not his engine and if you smoke it he's not going to fix it either. I've looked at that data for my two 175 E-Tecs and it's not even close to the same on a cylinder by cylinder basis.

 

[Luckalee]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

I will ask before I do anything, although I seem to remember a post about a swap for a spark test. Don't remember if they started the engine or not.

 

[tim1198]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Can I exchange emm's on my twins for troubleshooting? Also, which plug on the engine is the test connection?
Thanks

I think you'll be ok. I know Jim thinks it's a big deal, but I don't. It's only to reduce carbon build-up at low RPm that the injectors are calibrated. If you're really really concerned, swap the injectors along with the emm and it's effectively the same.
Tim

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

I think you'll be ok. I know Jim thinks it's a big deal, but I don't. It's only to reduce carbon build-up at low RPm that the injectors are calibrated. If you're really really concerned, swap the injectors along with the emm and it's effectively the same.
Tim

It is a big deal. The coefficent determines for the EMM how many ms the injector stays open. This is the same as mixture in a carbed engine. Too few ms=too lean=damaged hole.

If you're talking about carbon build up, are you referring to indexing or what? If it's indexing, the reason for it is, in the low RPM regime (< 2000 RPM), the charge is so lean, it won't fire properly w/o indexing and the charge being aimed at the open plug gap. The downside to not indexing is poor plug life and crappy running. The primary reason for all this, is the SW in the ECU/EMM is entirely open loop, with no correcting feedback at all. Some DI motors use O2 sensors for FB, but they are a very high maintenance item in 2S motors.

 

[tim1198]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Jim:
With all due respect, do you really think the injectors perform at the same level after 10yrs of use? The EMM has no feedback as to the performance of the FI's. So, your logic says that any FI over a few years old would need to be recalibrated to avoid running lean, causing engine problems.

The level of accuracy the EMM & FI provides over standard carburated engines are so much more superior that I say minor differences between FI spray patterns are a non-factor. If the only time they really know the spray pattern is when it's brand spanking new, they really don't know the real spray pattern. They're measuring 2x4's with micrometers. Also, pre-2000, they didn't even input the spray patterns into the EMM. Are you thinking these are all at risk for engine damage?

Tim

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

It's not spray pattern, it about opening duration. I don't claim to know how a FI changes over time, but I do know about opening time duration. Ever rebuilt an engine that ran too lean? It ain't pretty what happens to pistons and cylinders.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

tim1198,

You have a little bit of FICHT knowledge but not enough as shown by your recent posts in different threads.

OMC calibrated the injectors ever since the '99's came out as the factory emissions averages had to decrease every year. Even the earlier ones had a setting for a replacement injector compared to the OEM one.

The coefficients affect all rpms and pulse widths of each individual injector. That means from dead idle through accleration, to WOT performance. It takes into account the volume accuracy of each injector as well as how long it takes to complete a pulse from when it first receives the electrical signal - at each stage of engine output.

Since E-TEC has to be cleaner than the FICHTS ever were, the EMM counts every injector pulse and re-calibrates them according to known wear patterns so the motor stay super clean over time. On 1000 hour motors, the E-TECs still are super clean motors where 4-strokes with their oil control ring wear and valve wear emit more emissions than when new.

 

[boobie]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Dang Seahorse, I sure like your comments, especially at the top of your last post. Talk about "Hitting the nail on the head". You did it.

 

[Luckalee]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Certainly you guys know more about this than I do but, for the purposes of troubleshooting only, can I switch emms? Remember my problem was a sudden stall of the motor and although it would "pop" it wouldn't run. No codes were present and I can trade just about everything else on the motors for troubleshooting. If I switch the emms and it starts, problem component found.
BTW engine has run for 4 hours without a hicup since it started after about three days of trying to start it and tightening and cleaning everything I could.

 

[Craig-]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Certainly you guys know more about this than I do but, for the purposes of troubleshooting only, can I switch emms? Remember my problem was a sudden stall of the motor and although it would "pop" it wouldn't run. No codes were present and I can trade just about everything else on the motors for troubleshooting. If I switch the emms and it starts, problem component found.
BTW engine has run for 4 hours without a hicup since it started after about three days of trying to start it and tightening and cleaning everything I could.

EMM is calibrated to injectors. Probably won't hurt to swap them but don't continue to run with them swapped. Sounds like you may have had a poor ground. Don't run these motors with engine cover off, they have fan built into flywheel which needs the shrouding from cover to cool EMM.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Don't run these motors with engine cover off, they have fan built into flywheel which needs the shrouding from cover to cool EMM.

Only the 1997 and 1998 FICHTs had an aircooled ECU. 1999 and later were all water cooled.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Certainly you guys know more about this than I do but, for the purposes of troubleshooting only, can I switch emms? Remember my problem was a sudden stall of the motor and although it would "pop" it wouldn't run. No codes were present and I can trade just about everything else on the motors for troubleshooting. If I switch the emms and it starts, problem component found.
BTW engine has run for 4 hours without a hicup since it started after about three days of trying to start it and tightening and cleaning everything I could.

You can swap EMMs just to see if the motor will start, but do not run it above idle. That is when the engine damage could occur if the motor is run on plane with incorrect calibration of the injectors. It could be like putting a different carburetor on a motor and not knowing if the jets were correctly sized, which if too small, would burn up the pistons from running lean.

 

[Haffiman]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

You may safely swap and even do a SHORT run.
I dealt with them from they came on the market until 2004 when I 'retired'.
For testing purposes I even used 'spare' injectors from time to time.
Just be sure you have fully charged batteries and close to max voltage in the system.
The injectors are more sensitive to voltage drops than the tolerances between 'healty' injectors.
Running with a 'low voltage alarm' which does not activate slow, is more of a risk.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 2002 Ficht EMM swap

Can I exchange emm's on my twins for troubleshooting? Also, which plug on the engine is the test connection?

The answer is YES for 2000 rpm and below troubleshooting and the small triangle plug above the PDP and to the left. Voltage dropping off one of the 3 legs on stator can cause this problem...