2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

skyviper

Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
22
Hi guys, I've been reluctant to ask for advice on this since it has been answered over a dozen or more times on this site and also on the Yamaha Outboard site but I've tried it all and have decided that I need your help before I take it to a mechanic. Here's the problem, last year motor ran fine, would get up on a plane and run at about 4300-4500rpm wot. I knew that it wasn't the optimal operating range and that over the winter I would probably have to purchase a different prop to get the motor to work within spec, I still haven't bought one. After pulling it out of storage for the winter I took her out for it's maiden voyage to see how she was running when I found that it didn't want to run WoT. I could get her up on a plane and run at 3/4 throttle up to about 3300rpm before she would start to surge. To the forums I go to see what my problem might be. Two months of troubleshooting and testing later I still have the same problem, here is what has been done.

Round 1
Old fuel drained from tank and tank cleaned out.
Fuel/water separator installed
Fuel lines between tank and primer bulb replaced.
Fuel filter (the only 1) cleaned, didn't replace because it was screen type and easily cleaned
Disassembled fuel pump and inspected diaphragm, looked ok

Lake tested and problem persisted, bad fuel eliminated

Round 2
Removed Carbs and cleaned them, found bottom carb had significant oil residue in one of the float chambers. Soaked in carb cleaner and thoroughly cleaned with pipe cleaners, air and cotton swabs. replaced o-rings on jets in float chambers. Reassembled carbs and reinstalled on motor, did link and sync. Ran motor on muffs to test and noticed significantly less smoking and motor idled smoother. Lake tested still surging at WoT but able to reach 3600rpm before surging.

Round 3
Replaced fuel pump, also replaced gasket between pump and powerhead
Replaced spark plugs and gapped them even though old ones showed no signs of significant wear or problems.
Lake test and problem still persists, able to get to approx 3600rpm before surging.

On all of the tests I can go from idle to WoT and she will run fine until I get on a plane then start to surge. It takes approx 20-30 sec after getting on a plane before it starts but after I'm on a plane I can't go above 3600rpm without it surging.

Items I still need to check, fuel pressure, spark, compression (these I need to buy/borrow the tools to check). Are there any other tests I can do before taking this to a mechanic? Something obvious I may have overlooked?
 

99yam40

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
9,116
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

always best to test things before replacing parts, seems like you have a plan.
check fuel supply vacuum also to be sure there is not a restriction on inlet and air leaks
 

skyviper

Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
22
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

Will the fuel pressure test indicate air leaks? I'm assuming it will show some indication but what kind of meter deflection am I looking for as an indicator?
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

With an under deck fuel tank, you might remove the anti-siphon valve and replace it with a standard hose barb and try it. If that turns out to be the problem replace the anti-siphon valve. A restricted fuel pickup tube in the tank can also cause surging. Remove ti and check it.
 

skyviper

Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
22
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

Thanks for the input guys, after reading through the FAQ and your post Silver I remembered when I cleaned out the fuel tank there was a lot of debris in the tank but I didn't blow out the fuel pick up barb. Also, the fuel tank vent line on my boat is routed to my fill line cap on the hull and when I screw it on it seals, I don't think it's able to breath. I'll try and get out there this afternoon run the tests in the FAQ and post back with my findings.
 

skyviper

Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
22
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

No luck on testing anything yet, none of the local automotive stores have a compression tester or a vacuum gauge so I'm waiting on Amazon to mail me some tools. In the meantime I'll going out tomorrow morning to inspect the fuel pickup and replace the anti-siphon to see if those are possible problems while I wait.
 

skyviper

Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
22
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

Went out this morning to check the anti-siphon valve and fuel pickup. Found there is no anti-siphon installed and the fuel pickup is molded into the fuel tank. Also inspected the vent line and confirmed that it runs up to the fuel fill hose although the fill cap has a vent system on the back side the top is solid. I couldnt find any possible ventilation holes for the vent hose. Currently waiting for the thread seal to set then going to do a lake test with the gas cap unscrewed a little to see if its a vent issue. Any other ideas I can test while I wait for my compression tester a vacuum gauge?
 

Ldavidgrover

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
197
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

Run on a 6 gallon tank to eliminate any problems from the motor back while your waiting for parts/tools
 

skyviper

Cadet
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
22
Re: 2004 115TLRC WOT Surge

I went out today and ran the boat on a test tank to try and eliminate the house fuel system. I was able to run WOT the whole time with some minor surges, 100-200rpm, that I'd attribute to the motor needing a good tune up. Next up is to eliminate the problem in the house fuel system, most likely the fuel pick up, and get it replaced. Thanks for all the advice, it's helped out a ton.
 
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