2007 Glastron GT185 with Volvo Gl 4.3 won't turn off.....keeps running

[69starcraft]

I've got a friends boat here in the shop I am trying to help out. I do some work on outboards, but confess I know little to nothing about I/O and particularly Volvo.

I replaced the Shift Cable for him last weekend...was surprisingly easy or I wouldn't have taken on the job. Finished up and everything was fine.

He took the boat to the lake, texts me and says it won't start. Brings it back to me.

Battery was low, so I charged it up. Fired up boat and everything seems fine... no issues

Until I tried to turn off the boat.. She won't shut off. Turning the Key switch to off, or even removing the key, does nothing... the Gauges DO turn off, but motor continues to run.

Also the emergency Kill lanyard does nothing now. If you pull it motor continues to run.

Finally found a relay in the box on top of motor that when pulled shuts the motor down...no idea what that relay is for.

The internet has been little help in finding a diagram or schematic. The "map" on top of the relay box is confusing to say the least and I have no blown fuses.

Have been trying to read up on it and found a post suggesting to remove the purple wire from the alternator and test again...same issue, engine continues to run.

My gut thinks that the ignition switch itself may be bad, but again the gauges do turn off, and even with a bad ignition switch shouldn't the safety lanyard switch still kill the motor?


At a loss here and could use some help

The boat is stock, in excellent shape...no wiring was hacked or messed with ever.. All I did was put a shift cable in it... was operating fine prior. still does other than not being able to cut off the engine.

Boat is a 2007 Glastron GT185
Volvo Penta GL 4.3 motor
SX-A 1.79
3883623 is the number on the outdrive...

Unsure where to find engine numbers...

Any help would be appreciated...

Google was worthless....tons and tons of boats "won't start" but posts about boats not stopping not so much

 

[Assassin3F]

There is a test procedure in the manual for the ignition switch component and I believe one for the kill switch as well (although I am not sure about the kill switch there is definitely one for the ignition). If you follow the diagnostic procedure (requires a multimeter) it should tell you if the ignition switch is bad...which I would suspect it is if not it could be a relay causing the problem. I would also check to see if the emergency switch is stuck closed or has corroded terminals...if the battery was dead you may have an electrical drain somewhere and based on the outright weird issue you just described my guess would be that it is somewhere in the ignition switch. Did you charge the battery while it was still hooked up or attempt to jump it? If so could have fried a switch or relay somewhere.

 

[69starcraft]

I don't have a manual, and have been unable to locate online....or any wiring diagrams... I put it on a slow charger.... My gut leans towards switch, but doesn't explain why emergency kill switch is not working either...and that the gauges go dead when key is off

A diagram of what relay is what would be great but no luck so far

 

[Assassin3F]

Also, the more I think about it the more a bad ignition switch appears to be the problem. (mentally at least) One way those switches go bad is to short across two contacts internally (or they fail to make contact entirely). If we assume a short across the "run" circuit it would have the potential to bypass the kill switch entirely since the kill switch is sometimes jumpered off the ignition thru the switch and back to the ignition. Using that logic a short across the contacts in the ignition switch would explain the kill switch being useless...it would also explain the voltage drain and inability to turn it off once started since the run circuit is always on regardless of key position.

 

[Assassin3F]

On the manual, go to the Adults only sticky thread at the top of the forum and find the one about boat info.com. the site has been an absoltue lifesaver on my own projects recently and it does have some wiring diagrams for Volvo engines/drives/controls to include service manuals and electrical diagrams. If you look out there you will find a 1990s era manual for engine-electrical and another one with wiring diagrams. They may have changed some since the 90s but the testing procedures will almost certainly stay the same since those parts are fairly standardized.

 

[Assassin3F]

My apologies, I didn't realize how much searching was required in that thread. To get to the manual go to the adults only sticky thread, click volvo penta info then go to link #18 on that thread.

or

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...uiser-i-o-inboard-engines-outdrives/366271-vp

 

[69starcraft]

I am still trying to find out what wire is what so I can break out the meter...I suspect the ignition switch as well but unsure how to test probing blind

 

[Assassin3F]

Ignition switch test procedure,l and 4.3 GL wire diagram View attachment ENGINE ELECTRIC MANUAL ignition test.pdf View attachment ENGINE ELECTRIC - Volvo Penta EF series Wiring Diagrams 4.3 only.pdf

 

[bruceb58]

More than likely it's your alternator causing the issue. It's back feeding your ignition.

I am curious what purple wire you took off your alternator. If you took off the purple wire with the white stripe, that will do nothing.

Taking off the purple wire from the excite terminal will keep the alternator from operating but it will also keep your fuel pump from turning on. You can test to see if the alternator is the problem by pulling off all the wires and jumping the green wire to 12V. This will disable your alternator and also turn your fuel pump on. Then try to start and turn off your motor.

Finally found a relay in the box on top of motor that when pulled shuts the motor down...no idea what that relay is for.

fuel pump relay

 

[69starcraft]

Read a little on that...not much out there...but seems the way to test is to remove the purple field wire and attempt to turn off the motor...I tried this, and it continued to run

 

[69starcraft]

Ignition switch test procedure,l and 4.3 GL wire diagram

Ignition switch checks out..Nuetral Safety switch checks out....

Interestingly although sitting overnight with the key out after testing switch I went to start it and the battery is low again....a new clue I will investigate

 

[bruceb58]

Read a little on that...not much out there...but seems the way to test is to remove the purple field wire and attempt to turn off the motor...I tried this, and it continued to run

You sure it was the field wire you pulled off? If you really pulled the field wire, your fuel pump would also stop and the engine would have died after the carb ran out of fuel. Did the purple wire you pulled of have a white stripe too?

The fact that your battery is dying can also be the alternator.

 

[Assassin3F]

According to the wiring diagram on boatinfo the L2 connection is a green wire going through an inductor and into the fuel pump relay. Purple with a white stripe goes to electric choke, purple to the starter, alarm, ignition, and boat wiring harness, orange starter only...that is assuming that the wiring diagram actually resembles what he has in his engine since I think it predates his 4.3 by a decade.

 

[bruceb58]

L2 connection is a green wire going through an inductor and into the fuel pump relay.

That is a diode.

 

[69starcraft]

The purple wire has a white stripe...I am assuming is the field wire... So anyway battery is topped off and it won't even crank at all

 

[69starcraft]

Well it seems I have a two fold problem... I tapped on the starter solenoid and she fired up....so looks like thats in the future.and what is causing this intermittent no start that until today I have yet to witness... only my friend had this issue and thought it was related to the shift cable replacement...when I got boat back it fired up fine at first...

meanwhile I did perform the ignition switch test.... as she still won't cut off


It passed, but here is the curious thing - There are 4 terminals detailed below

"B" terminal - Red wire is Bat 12V+ and good
"S" Terminal - Yellow wire with red stripe is my Start wire and goes 12V+ when in start position only
"I" terminal - is a lighter purple wire and goes 12V+ when key is on, and off when key is removed...I assume this is my ignition kill wire and on outboards is usually Black with yellow stripe or Yellow with black stripe... A note on this wire below
"A" Terminal - Is another red wire goes 12V+ when key on, off with Key off....Assuming is for acessories and gauges

So, with above in mind working properly with both an Ohms test with terminals removed, and testing operation with power here is the interesting part
The purple wire goes 12V+ and off with the Key, but with the engine running I have 12V+ regardless of where the key is, even out.

So I do apparently have something energizing the ignition circuit that should not be...

Again, being a volvo I have no idea what to look for (physically) as to what relay is what, or where to go

Pulling the purple wire off the alternator makes no difference, and the alternator is charging at 14V no worries..


I've been at this boat all day.

So far I've learned

1. I hate Volvos...and I/O in general
2. At least my shift cable replacement didn't cause this new Gremlin, thats just boats
3. Theoretically I am on the right path, but still severely handicapped since I have never even seen this kind of motor before


Thanks for all the help so far.

The links to the electrical diagrams have helped some, but still have not found a map of the fuse/relay box on top of engine on the starboardish side next to the carb cover

 

[bruceb58]

The purple wire has a white stripe...I am assuming is the field wire... So anyway battery is topped off and it won't even crank at all

Wrong wire!!!!!!

That is the wire that goes to the electric choke.

You need to take off the wire that goes to the excite terminal.

So I do apparently have something energizing the ignition circuit that should not be...

Yes...the alternator.

Take all the wires off the alternator. Jump the green wire to 12V. I promise you it will be worth trying that.

 

[69starcraft]

OK....before I fry more I make sure I understand

Remove all wires from alternator

Jump the green wire to a constant 12v

Start motor

See if it turns off

is bad alternator

check?

 

[69starcraft]

Also, as I learn and surmise about this the how and why I wonder

The boat was "fine" prior.

I replaced a shift cable which has nothing to do with all this new issues

I am thinking that the starter is going bad, causing a higher than normal amp draw on the system as it turns....again having to tap solenoid leads me to think its failing

This high draw and low battery has caused the alternator to fail

or maybe its just a POS...

anyway just wondering out loud if one led to the other

 

[bruceb58]

OK....before I fry more I make sure I understand

Remove all wires from alternator

Jump the green wire to a constant 12v

Start motor

See if it turns off

is bad alternator

check?

Correct. Make sure you turn the battery off while you are removing the wires.

Alternators have been known to fail. That's why they sell replacements.

Ever take the battery cable off while the engine is running?