225 FICHT cold weather problem

[lastchance32]

I have had no luck finding an answer by searching. Lately the overnight temps have been low, around 30. When I try to start my engine the next day I get a rapid beep beep, from the alarm and the fuel pump doesn't run. It will crank over but not fire. I can take the cowling off the engine and pull the boat out into the sun and let it set for 10-15 minutes, try it again, and I get one beep and fuel pump primes just like it always did. I don't have a system check gauge, only the audible alarm. I have owned this engine since early spring when I repowered my old boat, so this is the first winter I have had it. I store the boat under an enclosed car port, but not heated, of course.

Anybody ever had any experience with this type of trouble? Any insight is appreciated.

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Hi,
Sounds like an issue in the PDP with either a poor connection or a flaky fuel pump relay (or maybe the connection on the circuit board to the relay), or possibly the EMM. Not sure about the beeps. You'll need to get into it a little more and get more information as to what voltages are present/missing when the problem occurs. At least you can recreate it.

From the diagram I have, the fuel pump relay is the lower left in the PDP. The red wire (coming from main power relay) on pin H (14-pin connector) feeds only the fuel pump through fuse 4 (10A). The output from the relay goes to pin B (14-pin connector) which is a purple/black wire. The EMM makes the ground for the relay through pin C brown wire (14-pin connector).

If everything is working right, you turn on the key, the main power relay comes on, gives power to EMM and pin H, EMM closes ground to fuel pump relay, relay comes on, 12v goes to pin B which feeds the fuel pump and fuel pump turns on.

So to troubleshoot this, as a start I would recreate the problem, then check the voltages on pins H and B. If nothing on B then check for ground on pin N. The best way to check for ground is to put your meter + on battery +12 then probe pin N with the - lead to see if meter reads 12v. Don't try to do an ohm check on that pin as it might damage the EMM.

I've attached a drawing. Hopefully it comes through the post.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

This is a common problem on some pre 2002 motors..oil is thick and slows stater down so the CPS doesnt sync with EMM, as 50 rpm drop will effect this. My fishing buddy has a 2000 that does same thing, we just boost battery when starting with portable jump pack, once it starts it ok all day...

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

This is a common problem on some pre 2002 motors..oil is thick and slows stater down so the CPS doesnt sync with EMM, as 50 rpm drop will effect this. My fishing buddy has a 2000 that does same thing, we just boost battery when starting with portable jump pack, once it starts it ok all day...

The fuel pump normally primes before the starter is engaged. When this happens the fuel pump doesn't prime at all whether cranking or not. I have swapped batteries just to see if it helps, but it does not. I think its definitely temp. related.

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

TO fireman_bob

Thanks for the diagram. I will check it out in the morning. I am sure the problem will occur as it is cold tonight.

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

You're welcome. I'm chasing a cold start problem with my 2000 200HP except everything is doing what's its supposed to when the key is on, but the engine won't start when it's cold (not outside temp, motor temp). It takes many many cranks to get it going. Once it's running, it starts right up.
Post your findings either way.
Good luck.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Take the diagnostic software and check rpm when cranking if below 275 rpm the engine will not sync and start....usually a new starter fixes this.

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Hi Faztbullet. Thanks for the info. The only thing that's different on my motor is a new EMM this August. I replaced the starter last year and the old EMM had no trouble starting with it (until EMM died of course), but I will check the RPM's as you suggest. Not sure what to do if they're below 275 since starter is new. Also, how would this be affected by engine temp, as the motor starts fine once it's been running?

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Just checked some voltages.

At pin H I have 12v+

At Pin B I have 0v

When checking pin c for ground, + meter lead on pin H - meter lead on pin C I get 0v

So I am not getting the ground signal from the EMM to turn on the fuel pump. I wonder why it will work when the temps. are not as cold. I left the cowling off after checking these voltages. I bet if I try it again in about 30 min. the problem will not be there.

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

You did check the fuse, right?
Check all of your connections to the EMM. Disconnect the harnesses from the EMM. While they're off, check for crud/corrosion on the connector pins on both sides. Unlikely, but it's easy to check. Also, check ALL of the grounds going to the EMM. I believe there's about 4-5 black wires around the motor that go directly to the EMM. I took all of mine off, cleaned them, then used liquid tape over them after putting them back on. Oh yea, one more thing while you're doing that - pray it's not the EMM.

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Yea, I checked the fuses, they are all OK. I will check the grounds and for corrosion @ the EMM connectors. Would this be a safety feature? When the temps are warm it runs like a raped ape.

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Checked for corrosion @ connectors on EMM and while I was at it I unhooked the connector from PDP no corrosion to be found. I checked for a ground again while I had the PDP unhooked and I had the ground feed from the EMM to the fuel pump control on pin C. When I plugged it back in, it went away. BTW, would you have a wiring diagram of the EMM connectors and where they go? I may have a pinched wire or something on the fuel pump ground control wire ( pin C ). Still doesn't make sense about the temp. maybe a coincidence??

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Not sure why you would have the ground with the harness off the PDP, but the power for some of the EMM comes from that harness so it's probably not a good idea to power up with that harness off. The grounds are not safety issues, they're the return circuits for the EMM functions.

With that said, based on what you just found, it may be that there's a bad/poor connection in the PDP for the ground for the fuel pump relay. When you say the ground went away when you plugged the harness back in, where were you measuring it when you saw it go away?

Test for a bad connection by pulling the fuel pump relay from the PDP and put your meter - lead on the lower contact where the ground comes from the EMM for the relay (85 in relay drawing. Then put your meter + on +12. With the key/EMM on, wiggle the wiring and tap the PDP to see if the meter voltage reading changes.

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Was checking the ground by probing the connector where the wire enters the connector. I also removed the fuel pump relay and checked the lower contact and get no ground with everything else connected.

I mentioned a safety feature, I understand how the EMM controls the grounds for the circuit, I meant maybe a feature of the EMM protection to keep the engine from running at low temps. Just a thought???

Otherwise it looks bad for the EMM

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Just so I'm clear, when the motor is warm and working correctly, you have the ground at the relay on the lower pin (85), and when it's cold, you don't. Its this what you're seeing?

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

That's right. The motor doesn't have to be warm. The outside air temp seems to be what matters. Now it has warmed up here it is about 50 and the problem is not there. Turn on the key, alarm beeps once then you can hear the fuel pump prime and will start. Engine has not been ran, only left to warm up in the sun.

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

Maybe to isolate between EMM and PDP, take off the EMM and put it in the freezer or fridge for a while then put it back on the warm motor and see what happens. Then let the motor sit overnight (since it probably won't fit in your freezer) and keep the EMM inside where it's warm and put the warm EMM on the cold motor and see what happens. You should be able to reach some conclusion at that point.

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

That's a great idea. I'll try that.

 

[lastchance32]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

aw crap, Left the EMM in the deep freezer for 1 hr. Took it and put it on the engine that's at ambient temp of around 50 and the problem is back! I'll bring it inside overnight to confirm. I don't like where this is heading. Is it possible that moisture is trapped in the EMM case causing problems? Looks like its completely sealed and potted so that can't happen.

I guess I need to take it to a dealer and have it connected to a computer to see if it has any codes??

 

[fireman_bob]

Re: 225 FICHT cold weather problem

I don't think moisture in the EMM is the problem. They're sealed up with conformal coating. Regarding the codes, a dealer can read them from your EMM. You can also read them using a procedure that flashes the dash light similar to the CE light in your car. I don't recall offhand how to do it, but I'm sure it's been described on this forum. Has to do with disconnecting the throttle linkage and setting it full over then turn on the key.
It's going to be painful if it's the EMM. People will suggest using DFI to repair it, but since your engine is 2002, you're better off to ante up for a new one from BRP. They usually run around $1200 for a new one. DFI will charge you about $800 to repair yours with a 1yr guarantee. I went back and forth with them 3x over the summer and ended up having to buy a new EMM anyway. Lost 4 weeks of fishing during prime season plus shipping charges each time. My new EMM worked flawlessly first time I plugged it in.