23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

pred02

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Ok, we are potentially looking to get a boat to use in Croatia because that's where my family is from and we go there practically every summer. We are looking at something that is approximately 20-25ft long, prefer to have a small cabin for a couple of people to overnight. The Adriatic Sea, while not quiet like the Ocean, often times has wind changes and can get very choppy (nothing like 6ft waves but still). Something sturdy that can get us back during rough weather and can be taken out to sea maybe 15 miles out. I guess perhaps a cruiser is the best definition - a 23 or 24 footer.

I know the usual suspects in this class include Bayliner, Sea Ray, Maxum boats, four whinns, etc but we are really looking for a boat that - with proper care and maintenance - can last us a long time. Our fiberglass dingy is from 1977 and is still used. Therefore something that is of good quality and can last decades.

If we are going to be getting this boat for the long run then prefer something that is not going to fall apart after 5-10 years of use. Any suggestions are appreciated.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

I am a believer that if you have the possibility of rough weather the larger the better and with a good cuddy cabin. The other essential would be a second engine regardless if it is twin outboards or twin I/O. At an absolute minumum you will need a good kicker just for the safety and security of being 15 miles out. Probably a nice 24 footer will work fine.
 

pred02

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

I am a believer that if you have the possibility of rough weather the larger the better and with a good cuddy cabin. The other essential would be a second engine regardless if it is twin outboards or twin I/O. At an absolute minumum you will need a good kicker just for the safety and security of being 15 miles out. Probably a nice 24 footer will work fine.

Great thanks. Petrol in Europe is about 1 euro/liter which is about $5.40/gallon so I think sticking with one engine is ok (and maybe a smaller backup engine). Also, I know Mercruiser and Volvo Penta make engines for cruisers. Are there any diesel cruisers out there? What is the recommended HP for a 24 footer?

I presume Sea Ray is better than Bayliner, but what other brands are recommended for reliability, durability, and longevity?

Thanks!
 

Bob_VT

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

There are some diesel power options but they usually come on the higher end boats and they are not usually geared towards performance. I guess it would depend on what is available to you...... what your intentions are (cruising, fishing, water sports etc).

Yes Sea Ray is above Bayliner but both will do exactly the same thing.
 

werthert

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

I have lived in Italy and have also been to the Adriatic. I would only recommend a 24' if you are an experienced seaman and know how to work a compass/charts if the GPS goes out.

As you know 2-3' waves can be common given the wind/weather and 4-5' waves in a mild storm. That's not to say a 24' can't handle them, it's just you have to know the sea very well to go that small.
As pred02 mentioned, no way would I be going out there without twin engines. IMO that is much more important to focus on than the brand name on the boat.
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

there are many diesel options, and they are now making more performance types. as far as the boat is concerned, go with a more local manufacturer, as the boats are built to the conditions that you will be using it.

many European boats are much different and American boats, in design.
 

pred02

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

many European boats are much different and American boats, in design.

The big problem is that in Europe - esp. Croatia - boats are much more because of the high import and sales taxes, and also limited number of "wealthy" owners of these types of boats. Also - considering the Euro / Dollar rate and the large market of esp. certified pre-owned boats it makes sense for us to ship it over there on a trailer and a container. I believe (but need to confirm) that if we register the boat in MA - as we are US citizens and are only there temporarily that we can bring a boat without re-registering it and pay the customs and taxes which could save us quiet a bit.

As American boats are often used on the Atlantic / Pacific ocean I do believe that they can handle the Adriatic Sea.

I have lived in Italy and have also been to the Adriatic. I would only recommend a 24' if you are an experienced seaman and know how to work a compass/charts if the GPS goes out.

I do not expect to cross the Adriatic, i.e. from Croatia to Italy, but stick along the Croatian sealine and go between islands. As all the islands are usually within 15nm spaced out at the most, sticking near the seaside I think it should be ok. More specifically, the home base would be the island of Korcula. I would be using it to go to Lastovo, Mljet, Hvar, Dubrovnik. Between each of these I do not think you will go more than a few miles from the nearest coast.

The problem with twin engines is the fuel efficiency which would exponentially raise the costs of ownership and use.

I would only recommend a 24' if you are an experienced seaman and know how to work a compass/charts if the GPS goes out.

I would love to learn to navigate using these. I live in Boston, MA and have some free time. Does anyone know of good courses/classes for this and maybe general boat operation? I already have a NH State Boating License but it is pretty rudimentary and I will be looking at some more advanced training.
 

rbh

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

If you are looking to send a boat overseas, they make large containers so you could slide one inside.
by the way do you have a recipe for slipivitz?:)
rob
 

pred02

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Jul 17, 2008
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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

Hi,

I had the opprotunity to discuss this with my family and it seems they are going to be more comfortable with a 20-21ft boat with a small cuddy cabin. Where we are going to be storing the boat we have an apartment, therefore overnighting is not going to be very common for us. Plus my father is not super comfortable with boats and I think he would feel best with a smaller boat.

We'd like to get a cuddy cabin because the saltwater sea almost every day has light winds in the afternoon with small to medium chop which can give people quiet a shower. Therefore, having a cabin where we can store things/people so they don't get wet is quiet convenient.

I had the opportunity to walk around the marina and look at used listings. I think a 2-4 year old pre-owned boat is our best bet. As we are looking for a longer term boat we'd like to get something that is in like new shape and can lasts us for many years. We don't except using it for more than 14-15 days out of the year until a few years from now until my father goes into retirement.

A couple of questions

1) Brands - I notice that some of the brands that offer these kinds of boats include Chapperal, Sea Ray, Bayliner, and Maxum. From what I read Sea Ray is a bit above Bayliner and as we are looking to hold the boat for a while we'd prefer a brand that is reliable to say the least.

2) Finish - the brands mentioned above really offer luxurious finish including leather seats, wood trim, carpets, etc -just like the luxury car. However, I am wondering how these materials sustain over the long run, i.e. I presume that sea water will splash in from time to time, how does that affect carpets seats, etc?

3) Other brands - there are other types of boats in this size that seem to be quiet more expensive even on the used side. They include Boston Whaler, Grady White, Pro Line. These boats all have deeper hulls and are often equipped with outboards (versus inboards) in this class. Are these boats better quality than the brands mentioned above? It seems that they are more equiped for fishing and other boating (i.e. no deck space to lie down and sunbather) rather than leisure.

A family friend and a owner of a Grady White said that all "cruiser" type boats I mentioned above are crap and the reason why they are so cheap is that they fall apart. Again, I presume it has something to do with brands, the problem with Boston Whaler is that they do not seem customized for crusing, sunbathing and leisure boating. And I presume that deeper hull means that they are either more stable on rough sea or are ocean worthy?

Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!
 

Huron Angler

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

Grady White and Seaswirl make heavy fiberglass cabin cruisers/fishing boats that will last very well if maintained properly.

This 26' Seaswirl would be a comfortable ride and keep you very dry in inclement weather. We use ours on Lake Huron.
http://www.seaswirl.com/models.cfm?model=749

Good luck with the endeavor.:D
 

pred02

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Jul 17, 2008
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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

This 26' Seaswirl would be a comfortable ride and keep you very dry in inclement weather. We use ours on Lake Huron.

It looks nice but its a bigger and pricier boat than we were looking into. How about the Adventure 208 Grady White?

What would be the difference between the Sea Ray 215 Weekender and the Grady White Adventure 208? I know one is more practical and designed for luxury and leisure (Sea Ray) where as the GW would be considered a more serious long-term boat? We don't really fish per say but GW looks to be better built.
 

Huron Angler

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

It looks nice but its a bigger and pricier boat than we were looking into. How about the Adventure 208 Grady White?

What would be the difference between the Sea Ray 215 Weekender and the Grady White Adventure 208? I know one is more practical and designed for luxury and leisure (Sea Ray) where as the GW would be considered a more serious long-term boat? We don't really fish per say but GW looks to be better built.

The 208 Grady White is pretty similar to the walkaround Seaswirl. My dad's Seaswirl is actually 24', the link I sent was the 26'.

I found this used 2004 Grady White 208 in my area listed for 38k...5 year old boat still pretty pricey. Gives you an idea of just how high quality the Grady Whites are when they still have that kind of value used. A bayliner that old would go for chump change in comparison.

As far as the 2001 Sea Ray 215 listed for 29k...I'd say that the Grady White is rigged for fishing primarily but is capable of cruising with the best of them. The Sea Ray will be more luxury but the Grady will handle rough seas and weather with ease being a sturdier, heavier boat.

Having the canvas tops would be a good idea since you will be getting some rain while on your voyage probably. Staying in those little cabins everytime it rains would get old in my opinion.

I agree with your first post when you claimed that a 23'-24' cabin cruiser would be ideal. If you could find a used Seaswirl from 2001-2002 24' you would be happy I'd bet.

I also agree with Bob when he mentions that having dual I/O's or OB's would be a good plan. I'm not sure about other folks but when I get 5-7 miles out and cannot see land I like to have two big powertrains rather than one. A kicker outboard will get you home in decent-good weather but in any waves bigger than 4-6 footers you will be challenged to drive against the wind/waves when needed.

What is your ballpark price range?

Good luck picking out a beauty:D
 

pred02

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Jul 17, 2008
Messages
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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

I agree with your first post when you claimed that a 23'-24' cabin cruiser would be ideal. If you could find a used Seaswirl from 2001-2002 24' you would be happy I'd bet.

Here is the lowdown. My parents are going to retire and spend 2-3 months on the Croatian islands in a couple of years. They want to buy the boat now. They like boats but are not avid boaters. I am and for me the bigger the better as it gives me more options. Adriatic Sea - where my family is from - is not as rough as the ocean, but its certainly not as calm as a lake. While (inbetween islands) I do not think any waves (unless a big storm) are big enough to flip the boat over, the winds do change and it can get quiet choppy.

The primary purpose of the boat is to get us between islands and all the little islands in between. They do not fish and there are no small kids that go on the boat. They have an apartment on the island so overnighting is not an issue for the most part. They also do not watersport, but it does not mean

1. First I suggested getting a RIB Inflatable like a Zodiac because its easy to maintain. However, on the choppy seas over there I doubt they will enjoy coming back and getting splashed. Also the RIBs are small and there is not space to bring friends and cruise, or lay down and sunbathe when cruising. And RIBs are not well know for their longevity therefore they ruled it out.

2. We looked at 24-25ft crusiers but I think it might be too much of a boat for my father to handle. He has been around boats but he is not that into it (like me). I think a smaller boat will be easier to handle which is a big plus for him. Also, once we get into the 25ft category its a problem with Marina space and storage on the island especially in the winter. With a smaller boat we can get a space easier to store in a cover somewhere safe from winds (can tie it to corpo-morto (I am not sure what it is in English but that's what it is in Croatian) and then use a small dingy to get to it.

3. A boat versus inflatable is good and they prefer a cabin because of the choppy seas and the ability to store electronics and other goods in there when returning home against the winds. Also, as they get older they like to take afternoon naps while others are swimming/snorkling away. Therefore a Cuddy Cabin would be ideal.

The budget is approximately $25-$34k for a like new (3-4 years old) boat that is troublefree at least for the initial duration.

I really really like the Grady white and can see how this is something that we can keep for a long time. However, when compared against a Sea Ray 215 (or equivalent leisure boat competitor) it's not the most practical. I can see that it has most space optimized for Fishing and there isn't a lot of space to load up guests, drink coffee, or just sunbath. It is a type of boat I'd take out in challenging seas and go out and fight the waves in, but this is not their cup of tea. Also the outboard engine is ok but as far as sea access etc the inboard seems to be more optimized use of space for diving and swimming.

I wonder if there is a compromise.

The give a comparison - most local boats in Croatia are about 20-25ft with a Cuddy cabin and a smaller built in engine (like 25hp diesel). They are not cruisers but they are big and sturdy enough to go when the seas get rough. Speed is not a factor there but it's nice to have a boat that can get us fast where we want to. Most of the local boats aren't produced anymore and are quiet old and would be difficult to maintain.

Tomorrow we are going to go and look at the Leisure Sea Ray at our local dealer. Then we will also see a Grady White at another dealer hopefully over the weekend.

I will report my results back but if there are other boat types with 20-22 ft long with a small cabin that are neither fishing and leisure I am open to suggestions.

Thanks!
 

Huron Angler

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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

Trophy is a less expensive hull made by Bayliner(mixed reviews) that offers several 20-24' cabin cruisers.

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=122457

here's a used one for 20k The trophy used boats will be cheaper than most others in their class due to Bayliner's less than perfect reputation...not that their boats are terrible...just often neglected and in bad condition as a result.

Also you may want to check out Cobia, Key West, Sea Fox, Century, Wellcraft, Robalo, and Baja. They all manufacture fiberglass boats in that size range.:D

I think your plans sound like fun and I'd love to boat in exotic(to me anyway) locations around the world. Good luck:)
 

windsors03cobra

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Feb 22, 2009
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Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

I think the worry about a 5 or 8 year old boat falling apart in short order is a bit exaggerated, if the boat was taken care of and not neglected then it should last a good ling time.
If it was abused and you abuse and neglect it some more sure it will fall apart, bust up, break down.
Buy something someone took care of and continue taking care of it and maintaining it and it will most likely serve you well.

Diesel ? Whats Diesel ? LoL. We are in America after all.

Good luck to ya.
 

pred02

Seaman
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Jul 17, 2008
Messages
62
Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

Also you may want to check out Cobia, Key West, Sea Fox, Century, Wellcraft, Robalo, and Baja. They all manufacture fiberglass boats in that size range.

I really like Robalo R225 because it's a fishing boat but it's better set up to be a cruiser. You can see in the back of the deck there is more seating room for guests which we are looking for (again we do not fish). Unforunantely, there are too many used Robalos around our area (MA). It reminds me of the Grady White Adventure 235 - however the Grady White seems to be more set up with Fishing in mind then cruising.

Wellcraft also seems to have a similar "Coastal" versus fishing setup which caters more towards leisure while maintaining a ocean worthy hull that manages in open waters.

Besides lesiure boats (Sea Ray, Four Winns, Maxum, Regal type) and Fishing Cuddie cabins (Grady White, Wellcraft, Robalo, Baja) what other cruiser like with small cabin boat types are out there?

Diesel ? Whats Diesel ? LoL. We are in America after all.

Thanks but the boat will go to Croatia where a liter of unleaded petrol is $1.48 which makes it to be about $5.60 a gallon (that's at current oil price levels) which at 8 GBP equals to about $45 for an hour of boating. These costs can add up.

I think your plans sound like fun and I'd love to boat in exotic(to me anyway) locations around the world. Good luck

Check out (all accessible by boat only):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwLXyCo3K30

Photo (our current boat is like this but check out the water):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gyst/198236820/
 

pred02

Seaman
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
62
Re: 23-24 Ft Cruiser recommendations for the Adriatic Sea

Update. We went to check out Sea Ray and Boston Whaler. Folks definantely did not like the Whaler style fishing boats with a cuddy (plus they were twice the price). They are good boats for people that live on the islands and use the boat a lot, however for people that use it recreationally during the summer Sea Ray fit the bill. It is like the Sea Ray was made for cruising and leisure. Maximize the seating space, the deck for sunbathing, access to sea. Mom did not like the outboard at all. I think we will go down this route.

The problem was even though they looked at the Sea Ray 225 weekender, they really feel in love with the Sea Ray 250 which was like a house on water. The weekender was a day boat, where is the 250 is something they can take around all summer on the Adriatic going from island and island.

The 250 is definitely a Marina boat and we need to assess all costs. Also I am not sure if that boat can go on a trailer or fit in a regular container to be shipped to Europe. We will look at Four Winns, Maxum.

What are other brands like Sea Ray - Four Wins, Bayliner, Maxum, Montorrey, etc? They really liked the 250.
 
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