25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

monk-monk

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Seen a Post here on iboats about installing one of these Rectifiers from Radio Shack to prevent overcharging/battery damage. Does anyone have a Link about that...Wondering if i need any other parts other than just the Rectifier..Im gonna get one tomorrow and just need to make sure...
 

j_martin

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Seen a Post here on iboats about installing one of these Rectifiers from Radio Shack to prevent overcharging/battery damage. Does anyone have a Link about that...Wondering if i need any other parts other than just the Rectifier..Im gonna get one tomorrow and just need to make sure...

You have to mount it, so you need a bolt and a nut, or a means to tap a hole in the switchbox mounting plate.

The minimum back voltage you need is about 200V. The rat-shack diode probably meets that. As it is surplus, it could be anything from 50V to 1000V. To be sure, buy one that is rated 400V from an electronics supply house.

You also need connectors. Usually .250 blade connectors will work. I made wire loops out of 14G solid wire and soldered them on, then bolted the original wiring to the loops with short stainless screws and nuts.

Here's mine.
 

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monk-monk

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Thanks J_martin...do you remember what the one you have is (brand)...and is the 25amp rating correct...
 

asm_

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

First, 50v unit will be more then enough for a outboard stator. 400v is over kill.

Just to clarify, rectifier will not prevent over charge. Rectifier is only used to convert AC to DC needed for your battery. In order to prevent over charge, you'll need rectifier/regulator unit. In case if you are wondering, RS doesn't carry such thing. You can get one here mentioned on this thread if your stator output is less then 15A.

B
 

monk-monk

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Well, thats what i was wondering about...I want to prevent overcharging and ruining my battery...My motor is 1972 Mercury 1150...not sure what my stator Amp rating is, but i will find out...See this is the kinda help i need...i don't need a rectifier, i need a voltage regulator...Please tell me more...
 

chum1

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

I have read good and bad about installing voltage regulators, my stator is limited to 9.0 amps max output on a 77 85hp.

good) regulates voltage to about 14.5 volts and doesnt boil batt.

bad) can get hot and catch engine on fire along with melting wires and making your wallet lighter by around $55.00 to install the thing in the first place.

so which is it?
 

monk-monk

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Well, this has become an interesting situation. The stator sends AC voltage to the rectifier, which is then changed to DC voltage...the ignition for the motor relies solely upon the battery...the rectifier is sending the DC voltage to the battery, it would seem to me that this is where a regulator should be installed (between the rectifier output and the battery)...BUT this brings up the question of how does the rectifier disapate all the voltage that the stator is sending...does sound like something is gonna get hot...I 'll keep researching this...
 

j_martin

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

First, 50v unit will be more then enough for a outboard stator. 400v is over kill.

Just to clarify, rectifier will not prevent over charge. Rectifier is only used to convert AC to DC needed for your battery. In order to prevent over charge, you'll need rectifier/regulator unit. In case if you are wondering, RS doesn't carry such thing. You can get one here mentioned on this thread if your stator output is less then 15A.

B
Just to clarify to you. Peak rms available on the average outboard stator is about 90V. That is limited by the load and the rectifier, if all is good. If the load should open up, the entire rms is applied to the rectifier, and 90V rms is about 225 peak to peak. The voltage rating of the rectifier is not the expected output voltage, but needs to be the worst case back voltage peak to peak applied.

Some ignition systems run off the battery. Most of the new ones do not. Once the engine is running, the battery, diodes, regulator, etc could disappear and the engine would keep running.

Now on to stator theory. The maximum current output of the stator is a function of the amount of iron in the core. When the iron core saturates, no more current can be generated. It does not limit the voltage.

Voltage (open circuit, no load) is dependent on speed. If the stator will put out the 15 V needed to charge a battery at idle, it will put out 90 volts at 6000 rpm. I tried an experiment once, and wired the two 20 amp stator windings on my V6 in series, and lit up 4 500 watt halogen work light to full brilliance at about 4000 rpm. (2000 watts total)

Now on to system theory. If the load pulls full amperage at say 14V, the stator will not put out any more than that. (remember, it saturates). If the stator output is low, and the battery acceptance rate is relatively high, you can use the battery as the voltage regulator. It just takes a little water, as the extra power is used to convert some of the water to oxygen and hydrogen. The output voltage can also be limited by a shunt regulator, which just routes the extra current to ground, or as in modern systems by a switching regulator, which just takes what power it needs, allowing the stator to run at whatever voltage it can.

Your question is how does the rectifier dissipate all the extra voltage without overheating. It doesn't, it just blocks it, which is why you need a fairly high voltage rating. The blocked voltage is called back voltage, and must not exceed the breakdown characteristics of the rectifier, or it will fail. No current flows at that time, so no heat is generated. Heat is generated during conduction. The forward voltage drop of a typical silicon bridge rectifier is about 1 volt, so at full load 16 amps it will generate about 16 watts of heat, or about 52 BTU's per hour.

I suspect the unusually high failure rate of the stock Mercury rectifiers is a combination of not allowing for worst case, as in a loose connection, and the peak inverse voltage rating is exceed, shorting out the rectifiers, and the fact that it is a very small canned rectifier stuffed into a small plate heat sink and potted. The actual rectifier is about 3/8 in. diameter by 3/8 in. high.

Now, from my experience, most of the Rat Shack rectifiers do have a break down voltage greater than 200 V. They rate them at 50 so they can put whatever junk they can buy in the package and sell it with a straight face.

hope it helps
John
 

monk-monk

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Mmm...John, i'll keep reading what you have posted...I have a very good working knowledge of electrical theories, but im not sure what you are saying here...some i understand, some you've lost me...Can you shorten this theory, like down to laymans terms..LOL...You got a little "deep" there...!!
 

j_martin

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Current's limited by stator design. Battery in good shape regulates the voltage. Rectifier ratings are maximum ratings, they will run at anything under that.

Put one in and go boating.

How's that for condensed?:D
 

Chris1956

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Let me add some condensed knowledge. The RS rectifier is much heavier duty than the stock rectifier. The stock rectifiers burn out if the battery is disconnected with the motor running. The RS ones will usually stand up to that kind of abuse.

The stator on that motor only puts out 9A at WOT. Less amperage at less speed. A good 24 series battery will regulate that kind of charge all day, w/o issue. After a long time running at high speed, the battery might need some water.

Install the RS rectifier, forget about the VR, fill the battery and go boating, IMHO.
 

sschefer

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

What John is saying is that if you're just charging a battery you really don't need a regulator. The battery load is enough to do that for you without hurting it.

Regualtors came on the scene later when we started putting electronic equipment in our boats and things like fuel injection ECU's. These items don't like overvoltage situations so we use regulators now to keep the voltage at a suitable level.

If you have a fishfinder, a GPS or Stereo I strongly recommend a combo rectifier/regulator ($100.00 on average) to protect them.
 

monk-monk

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Ok, thanks to all..sschefer, is what you are describing (combo rectifier/regulator) available for a '72 merc 1150...and why do you guys keep talking about (the battery will take it) just fill it with water...I have a closed cell Optima Blue top battery...CAN'T add water..!!
 

monk-monk

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Current's limited by stator design. Battery in good shape regulates the voltage. Rectifier ratings are maximum ratings, they will run at anything under that.

Put one in and go boating.

How's that for condensed?:D

and thats what i will do J_martin...Thanks!
 

roncoop75

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

Ok, thanks to all..sschefer, is what you are describing (combo rectifier/regulator) available for a '72 merc 1150...and why do you guys keep talking about (the battery will take it) just fill it with water...I have a closed cell Optima Blue top battery...CAN'T add water..!!

Not sure if one is available for your engine but I'd bet there is. It's just a rectifier that also regulates so it isn't throwing 16v at your battery at WOT.

You'll end up cooking that Optima, probably. It won't like the higher voltage that it sees at WOT. One of the larger (850 CCA) lead-acid, serviceable (so you can add water when the 16v cooks it out) is the suggested route for these older engines.
 

j_martin

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

You can splice in a regulator from a later mercury engine and it will work fine. I've gotten them off eBay for as little as 25 bucks.

The big picture is that when this engine was invented, a closed cell extreme surface area, high rate sealed battery like an optima was well in the future.

Best bet is use an ordinary battery, doesn't have to be any more than a commodity group 24 starting battery, keep it maintained, and go boating.

You have to match components in a system to each other.
 

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Faztbullet

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

This is from the CDI Ignition school book:

"Basically stated,the maintenance free battery is REALLY not recommended in a outboard system, which uses a rectifier or rectifier/regulator for operation The maintenance free batterys and one's similar to the NASCAR style "six pack" batterys are not recommended unless engine using a belt driven alternator. Refer to engine service manual for correct battery recommendations."
 

monk-monk

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Re: 25A, 50v Full wave bridge rectifier

I just want to thank everyone that replied to my Thread on this subject...i have learned a lot from the replies...Im most surprised about the issue of the correct type of battery that should be used...Thanks to all for setting me on the right path...now i know exactly what steps i need to take to get everything right with my charging system..been a big help ya'll...And i will quote myself again, "Education is expensive, but here on iboats...it's FREE!!!"...BEST BOATING FORUM AROUND...!!!
 
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