3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

[basalt51]

I just got a new Terrova 80 w/ Ipilot and I think I've got everything figured out and wired except for which on-board charger to get. I currently have 2 batteries in the stern of the boat on a Perko for starting and accessories, and I have wired the bow for two 12v batteries in series.

Stern Batteries:
1 - Everstart grp27 deepcycle 500 cca/75 ah
2 - Old/dry Interstate grp 31 deepcycle (need to replace)

Bow:
1 - New Kirkland grp27 deepcycle 115 ah
2 -getting a new optima blue top (grp 31?) from my Dad who never used it now that I have the fishing boat. Not certain on ratings yet.

I was going to go with the Minn Kota MK 440, but since it is the size of a battery itself, I was wondering if I could use a 3 bank charger instead?

I've read a couple threads about charging two batteries at once with the Perko set to "both." If I do this, I should get the exact same battery (atleast rating wise) as the one already there (stern battery #1) correct? This would allow me to use a 3 bank charger instead of a 4 bank, and I could probably go to 3X15 amp banks for the same price as 4x10.

Is there going to be any issue with having the 2 different bow batteries in series? Will I always be draining the grp27 wet cell and not really getting full use from the Optima?

Thanks

EDIT: Wanted to add my usage. I will be using the motor for trolling at 2-3 mph, almost all day (4+ hours easily) but generally only one day before I can fully charge at home. Atleast once a year I spend a week on a house boat, so I will only be able to charge for the houseboats generator. That week I may end up having to use the trolling motor only for navigation and let my kicker do all the pushing to spare the batteries if I can't get them to recharge from the houseboat. Most other times I don't want to have to deal with the smoke/noise from the kicker (15 hp merc).

 

[seabob4]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

First, your batts, regardless of size (24s, 27s, 31s), the charger will treat them the same, unless you have a gel cell. These require different charging voltages and the charger must be set accordingly. AGMs and wet cells use the same charging methods.

Second, I don't know of any 3-bank chargers that are 15/15/15. Once you get into more than 2 banks, they are all 10/10/10 (or 10 more for 4-banks). That being said, we use ProMariner chargers for several reasons, one of the most compelling is that when 1 batt is charged, the charger will take the 10A that was directed to that batt and distribute them to the remaining batts, whereas other chargers simply shut that circuit down and continue to charge the other banks with 10A.

The ProMariner ProTournament 300 Quad is 19" X 7" X 3.5". Not much larger than any 3-bank out there.

Just some food for thought. I don't work for ProMariner, but we use them at Proline. We switched over from Guest almost 3 years ago, glad we did...

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

Minnkota makes a 460 that is indeed 15 amps per output. As for the 440 -- that little hummer sells for well over $300 so why not buy a pair of dual output chargers with 15 or 20 amp outputs. You will have them for the same money or less, and unlike the four output charger, if one or two outputs go sour you don't have to junk the entire unit. For your trolling motor it is advised that you use the same capacity batteries -- otherwise one will die before the other and you are dead in the water. As for charging the starting and accessory batteries on the BOTH setting, you can use a single output charger for that but remember, it will take twice as long to charge two batteries as it would just one. So the nuts and bolts of this is your options are: 1) single bank and one dual bank, 2) one three bank, 3) two dual banks or 4) one four bank. It is all about amps delivered per dollar spent, versatility and how you feel about replacement should you experience a failed output.

 

[basalt51]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

Thanks guys,

Minn Kota's MK 345 is 3 bankx15 amp. I've found the mk-345 and mk 440 for under $300 shipped. I've seen Cabela's etc has them for WAY more though and were out of the question until I found them for less, and actually cheaper than the dualpro and promariner's protournament chargers.

Opps - optima is AGM, not gell... never mind...

Seabob - I really like the feature you describe in the promariners, but every place I've found with online reviews they have been rated pretty terribly compared to minnkota and Dualpro. For the price, I am having trouble going with them. The prosport 20 Plus looks like a good bargain, but at best I split 20 amps three ways at first. Assuming the starting batteries charge pretty quickly (which they might not in parallel) it then sends 10 amps to each of the trolling batteries until they are charged. If one finishes before the other (which I guess could happen with all my miss matched batteries) then the last will get all 20 amps. Thats not much better than 15 amps all the time. I think it would be good if you have a battery that charges quickly (starting), and one that takes a long time (one deepcycle), but I think I will have a pair that takes a long time, and 2 individual batteries that also take a long time.

I think what I will do for now is get some kind of 3 bank charger (leaning towards the minn kota 345) and run it with the 3 batteries I currently have. If the miss matched optima and kirkland batteries don't work too well on the trolling motor, I'll put the kirkland in back with the starting battery onone bank, and get a matching gell cell for the trolling motor. I'm a little worried about a non-sealed battery in the compartment anyways.

Thanks again, I'll post up with my results whatever I do.

 

[seabob4]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

Minnkota makes a 460 that is indeed 15 amps per output. As for the 440 -- that little hummer sells for well over $300 so why not buy a pair of dual output chargers with 15 or 20 amp outputs. You will have them for the same money or less, and unlike the four output charger, if one or two outputs go sour you don't have to junk the entire unit. For your trolling motor it is advised that you use the same capacity batteries -- otherwise one will die before the other and you are dead in the water. As for charging the starting and accessory batteries on the BOTH setting, you can use a single output charger for that but remember, it will take twice as long to charge two batteries as it would just one. So the nuts and bolts of this is your options are: 1) single bank and one dual bank, 2) one three bank, 3) two dual banks or 4) one four bank. It is all about amps delivered per dollar spent, versatility and how you feel about replacement should you experience a failed output.

Very interesting. As a production engineer at Proline, I am continuously bombarded with new products from thousands of vendors repped by hundreds of hardware reps, yet the only time I was ever contacted by Minn Kota was for a set of composite trim tabs they had come out with oh, say about 3 years ago. Battery chargers? Never. Didn't even know they made them until here. I get requests all the time from Guest, PM, Charles, even Xantrex, to evaluate a new charger, but nothing from Minn Kota...

I guess this is my bad for not taking more time to find out what's out there. Maybe Minn Kota caters more to the northern builders or to the aftermarket segment of the boating business. Perhaps, if their product is so good, they should expose themselves more to the southern builder (there are a ton of builders in FL, volume means $$$), but if their price isn't "right", they won't get considered. Maybe that's the issue, I don't know, because they never contacted us.

What I do know is that I attached the leads from a PM Prosport 20 to a batt, plugged it in, dropped the charger in a 5 gallon bucket of salt water, and came back 3 days later. Batt charged, LED indicator lights on charger showing batt charged. Unplugged unit, disconnected from batt. Same unit is still going strong 3 years later.

I'd say that's pretty good testimony...

 

[basalt51]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

I've been re-doing a lot of my on baord charger research and I was a little mistaken about the reviews. It looks like the promariners are very highly rated overall. What scared me away initially is a bunch of 1 star reviews that the people were saying they were on their 3rd unit and all had failed.

I always try to take those with a grain of salt (guess I had forgotten) and now I'm pretty sure those people probably set them up incorrectly each time.

Whatever the case, cabelas has their branded GenII Prosport 20+ for $89!! I couldn't pass that price up. It should be on my doorstep in 3-6 days

 

[basalt51]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

cabelas has their branded GenII Prosport 20+ for $89!! I couldn't pass that price up. It should be on my doorstep in 3-6 days

Hell, its all I can do to keep from ordering a second one right now!! LOL

 

[fishrdan]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

$89 for a 3 bank 20 amp charger That's a smoking deal right there!

The only down side I can see, from what you mentioned, is charging the batts quickly from the houseboats genny. 20 amps going towards 2 deeply discharged trolling motor batteries is going to take awhile. I've found it takes 4-5 hours to charge one well discharged group 29 battery with a 20 amp charger. (I have 2- G29 batts and 2- 20 amp portable chargers for my jon boat.) Depending on the state of charge, I could see that charger taking 8-10 hours to top off the TM batteries.

Either way, good score on the charger.

 

[seabob4]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

I've been re-doing a lot of my on baord charger research and I was a little mistaken about the reviews. It looks like the promariners are very highly rated overall. What scared me away initially is a bunch of 1 star reviews that the people were saying they were on their 3rd unit and all had failed.

I always try to take those with a grain of salt (guess I had forgotten) and now I'm pretty sure those people probably set them up incorrectly each time.

Whatever the case, cabelas has their branded GenII Prosport 20+ for $89!! I couldn't pass that price up. It should be on my doorstep in 3-6 days

Hell, our cost for a Prosport 20+ is $121...damn, we should buy from Cabelas!

 

[basalt51]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

Hell, our cost for a Prosport 20+ is $121...damn, we should buy from Cabelas!

Lol. I figured it had to be a typo, or the wrong model, but it's not.

On the houseboat we'll bring a separate 2/10/25amp charge just in case.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

Just because a vendor does not provide every boat builder in the country with evaluation units (chargers, or any other accessory) does not mean they don't make quality stuff. It may in fact mean it doesn't need evaluation. MinnKota has been around since Hector was a pup and their catalog is jammed with trolling motor accessories including chargers. So if a boat builder or dealer is installing MinnKota trollers they should also know about the remainder of the line. But then the price point is usually the driving force at the builder/dealer rather than the actual quality of the accessory. Vendors that do this are merely trying to drum up business and have little actual interest in what the "evaluation" turns up. Evaluations and surveys are nothing more than "smile sheets" for a corporation since it makes them feel good when they get a good review and rarely act on a bad one. Fact is, to be done right, evaluations and surveys are a very detailed four step process that takes over six months minimum and requires a great deal of follow up on the part of the manufacturer and the prospective customer. Few corporations do it well. OK - I'm off my soap box and I do not work for Minnkota or any other marine equipment manufacturer. In fact I no longer work for anyone since I'm retired.

 

[seabob4]

Re: 3 or 4 bank on-board charger?

Just because a vendor does not provide every boat builder in the country with evaluation units (chargers, or any other accessory) does not mean they don't make quality stuff. It may in fact mean it doesn't need evaluation. MinnKota has been around since Hector was a pup and their catalog is jammed with trolling motor accessories including chargers. So if a boat builder or dealer is installing MinnKota trollers they should also know about the remainder of the line. But then the price point is usually the driving force at the builder/dealer rather than the actual quality of the accessory. Vendors that do this are merely trying to drum up business and have little actual interest in what the "evaluation" turns up. Evaluations and surveys are nothing more than "smile sheets" for a corporation since it makes them feel good when they get a good review and rarely act on a bad one. Fact is, to be done right, evaluations and surveys are a very detailed four step process that takes over six months minimum and requires a great deal of follow up on the part of the manufacturer and the prospective customer. Few corporations do it well. OK - I'm off my soap box and I do not work for Minnkota or any other marine equipment manufacturer. In fact I no longer work for anyone since I'm retired.

Silvertip,
While you are correct in your assessments concerning builders, it is unfortunately NOT the way business is done at the builder level. There are many factors that preclude the proper testing of products, the use of certain vendors over other vendors, the logical steps that need to be taken to properly evaluate a product. None of this is good, yet it is the norm at the builder level.

Case in point. When I was at Wellcraft, we needed a hatch in the splashwell of the 32/35 Scarab Sports. I knew of an Armstrong hatch that was perfect (I'd used it at Hydra-Sports). Yet, my engineering manager had a personal problem with the owner of Armstrong, hence, we would NOT use any Armstrong products! Ego.

At another company, I got a call from Whale water systems wanting to demo a couple of new products. I had used Whale at Wellcraft and Stamas and thought their products were excellent as well as cost competitive. Told my boss about there meeting I set up with them, he said fine, but you're wasting your time. He was good friends of the guy who repped Sea-Tech, and that was going to be the product we used...period.

Unfortunately, this type of behavior occurs daily at the builder level. So I guess I'm just sort of used to it. So in my defense in regards to Minn Kota, maybe they just know not to bother, I don't know. But it's pretty apparent they make a good product...