302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

kwoolard

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I am thinking of upgrading my engine after this season and was looking at a 351HO, claimed to have 285hp.<br /><br /> 351 HO - 285 hp <br /><br />My outdrive is in excellent condition and was looking for just an engine swap. But will my outdrive handle this power? I assume everthing external such as exhaust manifolds fuel pump, bell housing, coupler, and the Y-pipe should fit this engine? Also, the engine compartment I have now has about 3" of clearance on the sides of my 302, will the 351 fit. I can open up the space another 2" all the way around if need be.
 

JasonB

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

The issue will be the torque. I too have an 888/302 and thought over the 351 swap. The same drive was offered with a 351 rated at 233hp. I have tried to research teh subject and my understanding is that our #1R drives are generally ok up to 275hp, if you have a light hand. Your other problem may be the couplers. I know of one person that has done similar to what you are looking at. his problems aren't with the outdrive, his were with the coupler. Seems the available Ford couplers can't handle the power. After 3 stock couplers, he had a Bravo coupler machined to fit and that seems to have worked.
 

Bondo

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

The same drive was offered with a 351 rated at 233hp.
As well as the 260hp 350 Chevy..........<br /><br />It's All in How you Abuse It.................. ;) :D
 

kwoolard

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

I had read somewhere that these drives were rated up to 300 hp. However, that 285 hp engine is probably rated at an RPM that it would never see under my control. So I assume everything on my 302 will bolt right up to the 351? What are the overall dimensions of the 351 compared to the 302.
 

Laddies

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

When Mercusier went from 250Hp which gave us no problems to 260 Hp on the 350 engines, we had 100% failure in boats over 22' for the next year and ahalf they tried new pinions, increased the gear lash, came out with a new fwd, pinion gear kit and finally a complete gear set so if you have the new gears you can use 285 to 300 in moderate conditions
 

mkast

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

If I remember right, the 255hp 351's had a 1.32:1 gear ratio in the stern drive.
 

JasonB

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

Your 302 accessories shoul bolt up (circ pump, manifolds, starter, alternator, bellhousing, etc.). I think the distributors are different. <br /><br />Not sue how much wider a 351 is, but I'm guessing you would be ok. I think the 351 is more of an issue in height than width. Also keep in mind that the 351 is 75-100lbs heavier if I remember correctly.<br /><br />Try this: http://www.classictruckshop.com/engine_sizes.asp
 

ron7000

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

I have a 24' Apollo (formula) 1976 which had a mercruiser 233 (233hp). The original drive ratio was 1.23, ran a 14x17 prop and did 40 mph wide open.<br />I repowered in 1993 with the same motor you listed from basic power. I reused my original flywheel housing, exhaust, fuel pump, alternator, starter with no problems. I would call basic power and specifically ask if the flywheel housing from your 302 motor/model will match up to the 351 you want to get. They should also be able to tell you weight and dimension differences. Your exhaust should match up no problem. I went with replacement osco exhaust manifolds and risers from basic power also, which frees up a lot of engine room on the side compared to the original merc log manifolds. Manifold part number was 28001 I think, risers were CR818 I think. There's an elbow and wet exhaust hose kit to make it all fit, it's a decent setup. Definitely ask about that if and when you get a new motor, tell them you want a discount for buying everything from them. Also, my 351HO came with Holley 4b carb and prestolite distributor, your link didn't mention it. The prestolite will come with points ignition but you can convert that to a pertronix electronic very easy and inexpensively, unless you want to go with a new complete distributor from Pertonix, MSD, or Mallory.<br /><br />I have had no problems with the flywheel housing or coupler ever. My original drive, which was the #1 from 1976, siezed the top bearing due to an oil leak but that drive's time was up anyway. On the replacement which was a rebuilt used #1, I sheared the propshaft under power but I noticed on the rebuild parts list that the propshaft was a used part. I then spent $5k on a new alpha gen 1 drive and had no problems since. It's a 1.5 ratio and I run a 4-blade 14x20 prop and do about 45mph, maybe 50 when the hull and running gear is clean. I've slalom skied with the boat for years, plenty of w.o.t. take offs and never had a drive problem. I had asked a merc sales rep at the NY boat show shortly before I purchased the drive (not from him) about it's capabilities and they said generally the alpha 1 is used on applications up to 300hp, but that was from a salesman, who asked his other salesman buddies, and that's the number they came up with. But they did say the newer alpha is stronger and better designed than the the old #1 drives, which I can believe.
 

kwoolard

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

Do you guys think that I would need to change the gear ratio if I go with this new engine?<br /><br />Ron, did you mean you purchased your engine from basic power? I've called basic power and the carb and dizzy aren't included.
 

Bondo

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

Do you guys think that I would need to change the gear ratio if I go with this new engine?
No......
 

rodbolt

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

finding new ford power plants is getting difficult due to fords withdrawel from the marine market about 1995.<br /> some remans are still around.<br /> were it me I would hunt for a storm damaged transom/drive assy and go back with GM.<br /> however I do understand you already have a working setup.<br /> be aware that there were 3 basic versions of the 351.<br /> the windsor,which shares a lot with the 302, the cleveland which only shared the paint color and the 351m/400m which was a modified cleveland.<br />make sure whichever engine supplier you chose gets the model number from your existing engine before selling you anything. back in the late 70's there were 3 different cranks used on a 302 ford and each took a different balancer and flywheel.<br />back then I worked on raggedy cars for a living and learned to hate fords.
 

ron7000

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

yes, when I bought my 351 HO from basic power 10 years ago it came with 4b Holley 4160 carb and prestolite distributor (with points) as standard. Doesn't surprise me that they are no longer included.<br /><br />you shouldn't "need" to change the outdrive gear ratio. Check your current outdrive ratio and what prop you are running. If your prop pitch is already high like 21" then unless you can get a prop at 23" or 25" pitch then you may need to change the outdrive ratio. But I don't think the hp jump from the 302, around 200hp to 285hp is going to require much propping.<br /><br />If you get the 351HO, I recommend buying a complete electronic distributor from someone like MSD, Pertonix, or Mallory. They will have one specifically for that motor. Not sure how easy and expensive it is to get replacement cap and rotors for those though so check before you buy. For the carb, the simplest route is get a Holley model 4160 4-barrel. You want list #0-80319-1 which is for the 351w. http://www.holley.com/0-80319-1.asp <br />You may be able to pick them up cheaper online at jegs or somebody vs direct from holley.
 

kwoolard

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

Ron,<br />If I were to do this changeout I would definetly go with an electronic distributor. As for the carb, I was thinking about an Edelbrock...I think the 600 cfm 1409 marine carb. I heard too many horror stories about the Holley's blowing their power valves too often. And too many good stories about the ease of adjustment and maintenance on the Edelbrocks. What do you think?
 

kwoolard

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

How is the fuel consumption on the 351HO compared to the 302?
 

ron7000

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

I don't think you'll notice a fuel consumption difference. I went from a 1976 351 to a 1993 351. Although my new motor was rated at 50hp more, I think I actually get better economy now vs the old motor and I think that's because it's new and in excellent condition, with electronic ignition, properly tuned carb, and so on. You would notice fuel consumption if you run wide open or close to it all the time, obviously. Depending on your type of boat, my best guess is you'll be able to go up in prop pitch 2-4 degrees and be able to run at lower rpms for a given cruise speed, taking advantage of the extra power of the 351, and probably break even in fuel consumption. Or maybe do a little better if your current motor is tired and not tuned 100%.<br /><br />I have the marine holley 4160 it came with mine. I didn't touch it for the first 8 years, ran perfect from day 1. The holley horror stories you hear are perpetuated over the internet by people who know nothing and like to reiterate false info. Holley's today will not blow out their power valves.<br /> http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/Power Valve Tech Info.pdf <br />I don't have hands on experience with edelbrocks so I can't comment on them but I can comment on the holley, specifically the same one you would be getting. There is little adjustment you can do, it's ready to go out of the box and set up for the 351. When it starts to fail, what fixes or adjustments you need to make are easy. You either replace a screw in power valve for $10, a secondary diaphram for $10, adjust your electric choke setting (for free) or clean the thing out with carb cleaner like you would any other carb. The only inconvenience is setting the float level because you have to remove the fuel bowls to do so.
 

rodbolt

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Re: 302 to 351HO - Will Type I outdrive handle the HP?

I will agree with Ron on that.<br /> the holley powervalve myth is like the Q-jet myth.<br /> mostly perpetrated by the ignorant that had other issues.<br /> yes a good backfire from a fuel or timing problem can blow the powervalve, it can also turn the Q-jet secondary airvalve inside out.<br /> usually caused by idiots that keep trying to rev up a sick motor cause they have no clue how to actuially trouble shoot and fix it.<br /><br /> if ya like to play you can seriously fine tune a holley, almost everything on it is tunable.
 
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