35 hp RPM

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp RPM

The marks on the control handle are basically "suggestions" and will change given adjustments at the engine and at the threaded ends of the cables. ALL settings for idle and high speed are accomplished at the engine. The scribed line on this cam is different than on the three and four cylinder engines. It indicates FULL throttle whereas the three and four cylinder cams indicate only the starting setting with the butterflies closed. However, it should be set the same, with the scribed line centered on the roller. If the 2 cylinder engine is battery ignition, no tools are needed to set timing. You turn the flywheel by hand and see when the top plug sparks. Magneto ignitions need to be timed with a light while running. Electronic ignitions can be timed static the same way as three and four cylinder engines.

To the OP: Timing on these engines is more important for speed than throttle opening. The linkage is designed so that for cruising (economy) timing is almost fully advanced while the carb is only about 1/2 open. IF the engine was at wide open throttle in the photo as you stated, timing will be fully advanced. Opening the throttle fully will give increased RPM but not a great amount more. Don't expect (for example) double the RPM. A more realistic expectation would be 15-20% more.

Even with the increased RPM, don't expect much more speed from your 'toon. In fact, it may not go ANY faster. That may be why the original owner set the linkage so maximum throttle was at cruise position, figuring to save a little gas.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Thanks Frank and stop taking my lines about being wrooooong as Fonzie once said (Happy Days and Goodtimes best shows you Americans made)

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Where in Mi?
Somewhere between the blades might be a number stammped in there.
A 35 on a toon should have about an 10-11p??.

Mick, there are test props for ALL outboards.
Pretty expensive too.
You Chrysler is just an early Force.The same engineers and same company.
They just changed the name to Force cause of the Chrysler/cheapie name when Bayliner/US Marine bought them.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp RPM



Partially Wrong Jerry: Yes, Chrysler did become Force with no changes to design BUT: It wasn't because of the name and while some engineers may have migrated to Brunswick, I highly doubt it was the same team!

During the 1980s when Chrysler got into deep financial trouble, the US Govt bailed the company out. As part of the rescue, Chrysler was FORCED to divest itself of anything except automobile business. SO, the Chrysler engine line was sold to Brunswick, the name changed to Force, and I think the boats simply ceased to be built.

In fact, Chrysler was starting to make major changes to engine design and they already had a V6 loop charged prototype engine.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Yeah, Chrysler stock was $2 a share before the bail out. I was too dumb to buy. The Force story merges with Bayliner as I recall, which was also bought by Brunswick -- I think. Anyway, there were the Bayliner boats with the Force motors and Escort trailers. Actually, a good marketing idea I thought. And Brunswick/Force limited the number of horsepower designations in the line, which I thought was a vast improvement over the Chrysler scheme -- Frank, maybe you or Jerry can rattle off the engines (horsepowers) in the Chrysler line. Needed a decimal system to identify them all.

Frank -- go get a beverage now or catch up on the ballgame, because I'm going to circle back to the OP on the linkage thing…..going to be bad for your blood pressure.

Hey Pikefisher -- Why do you say the motor is at WOT in the pic shown? Basing that on the position of the remote control throttle lever, maybe? (pedal to the metal, balls to the wall….) Is the motor in gear?

(If you get that linkage adjusted, I would like to see a pic. If the throttle is open in the current pic, I would expect to see that control lever pushed quite a bit further back. Those wires coming out from the stator and trigger should likewise be further back, seems to me, as the throttle cam under the flywheel should be rotated fully counter clockwise for WOT.)

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp RPM

You know, I think I really need to apologize! Looking at the photo again, the link rod is as short as it will get. lengthening it will only close the throttle more. I don't know what I was thinking! Call it a late night brain fart! Or Old timers disease!

So, something else is incorrect. HOWEVER, it is NOT the control box and cable UNLESS something is binding inside the box.

At any rate, the OP needs to see why the throttle is stopping where it does. (if the engine is at WOT in the photo.) He is not getting full carb opening and most likely not getting full timing advance. If the linkage was adjusted correctly, the ball links and rod should be set with the threaded portions about half way into the plastic ends not fully inserted as they are.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Thanks for the come back, Frank. Main point on this end with the control box cable is to get it the hell out of the way, so can figure out the rest. Actually, I would pull the link rod off too, set the throttle open by hand, then adjust the linkages for the carb and for the remote control cable, with the position of the control lever (at WOT) the starting point.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Looking at the photo again, in the light of day, I need to apologize. If the control handle is as far as it will go, then the engine is NOT at WOT. Lengthening the rod and ball links will only close the carb butterfly more. I don't know what I was thinking. Call it a late night brain fart or old timers disease.

Looking at the photo, I can (in the light of day) clearly see that the high speed stop is about an inch from the block. The rods and plastic links should under normal circumstances be adjusted so the threads are only about half way into the end pieces. Yet, in an effort to get full timing and throttle advance, they are screwed all the way in.

SO, My revised guess is: If the control handle is as far as it will go, is that something is binding, either inside the control box or within the control cable. If the cable is routed with a sharp bend, this will cause binding. Likewise, sometimes the attachment inside the engine will also cause binding. The advance plate should also be checked for interference under the flywheel and at the neutral interlock.

Duplicate post. It did not show up when I logged back in so I reposted with a little different info.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Is it possible that the rod is the wrong rod?

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Frank -- posting problems on this end, so changed browsers.

re. your addit note.

I'm working out a binding issue on a 10 hp Sailor, just as you describe. Binding is somewhere at the motor, as far as I can tell, and think it may be under the flywheel. I initially had some hanging with the remote cable bending, so moved the connector post to a lower hole on the control level.

I'm guessing the OP's remote control cable is probably OK for another inch or two, if needed at some point, maybe with some tweaking at the box (per your earlier description) or at the motor quick release.

(Mick -- probably surprising how much length can be added to that control link by adjusting the ends, but does seem like quite a bit could be needed.)

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 35 hp RPM

This is a video of a similiar motor, I tried to look at the area of the throttle linkage, what I am noticing compared to yours is the amount of wiring you have on yours which seems to be in the way.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Also I noticed on the picture, is that you still have some more to screw up on the throttle cable (not linkage), which seems to be fully out near the spring loaded part. I hope the video above may help for your positioning.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Pikefisherman -- would like to know what you come up with, when you get back to it.

Mick -- Wire bundle moves with the plate, and wouldn't normally be an issue. Also, throttle linkage is likely to be fine, as I see it -- would likely just pull it out further at the motor and reconnect when the mag control lever is reset. Issue is the control lever setting (i.e., resetting it to WOT -- which "controls" the other linkage adjustments, on my view.) Have to see what he finds when he makes the adjustments.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Thanks oldboat1, the bundle wire just looked like it was a bit messy compared to the video, I am an electrical neat freak when it comes to wiring . Thanks for the info but makes sense. Let us know OP

 

[pikefisherman]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Thanks for the tons of help everyone when I can get the boat in the water I will check things out but as Frank posted if increasing the rpm may not help the speed I wonder if I should even mess with things, as I said I have not been around pontoons or boats with controls. I was glad to see the video I was wondering about the rattling noise also, mine sounds the same way.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Hi Pikefisherman. your call of course, but I would try to make sure the throttle will open, then get the linkages correct. What is your reason for saying it is/was WOT in the pic (good pic, btw)? Is that as far as you are able to advance the throttle? Got some curiousity going here now.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: 35 hp RPM

In the video I posted, that motor is clearly idling, but it is in nearly the same position as yours, and your saying yours is a WOT? i'm confusaled

 

[Nordin]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Maybe something is wrong with the adjustment of the remote on this engine.
First of all to be sure the throttle cam rod is right adjusted do like this.
Disconnect the remote throttleconnector, rotate magneto until the nylon throttle stop on the stator ring rests at the block.
Wide-open throttle mark on cam should intersect the roller.
If not adjust it by shorten or lengthen it. Check the butterfly and it should be horisontal or almost.

Now you have the right starting point.

Set the remote in neutral and adjust the springloaded connector so you have to pull the conncetor out about 1/4 in to slide it over the ballink.

Now check the WOT by the remote and it should push the magneto control lever so it stops at the block by the nylon stop.
If not something may binding.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp RPM

^^yes. described well.

(Edit: might add that the motor needs to be in gear for full throttle advance -- adjustments with engine off.)

 

[oldboat1]

Re: 35 hp RPM

Hey Pikefisherman -- get it fixed???