383 Initial Startup Problem

wca_tim

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

A comp test should tell you if the valves are adjusted wrong.

I have faith in the machinist setting them right... if you get it running and it runs like crap, then worry about the valve adjustments. as long as they're not way too tight or way too loose they'l be fine for initial startup. you're going to set them hot as soon as you get a convenient opportunity to do so anyhow....;)
 

Bt Doctur

Supreme Mariner
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Aug 29, 2004
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19,344
Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

with #1 on TDC compression wherever the rotor is pointing is #1 spark plug wire. Most of us adjust the rotor to point to #1 position on the cap though. clockwise order 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2. take a compression reading to make sure the valves arent adjusted too tight.
 

jtybt

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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730
Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

white/red wire from ECM to dist is on the left side. White/green is on the right.

Just for yucks. test the coil to ground spark and ALL spark plug wires spark to ground.

There's a SS toothy thingy that triggers the hall effect module. That thing can get bent and not pass cleanly between the pick-up and not be firing all the time.

Make sure the dist cap is sitting squarely on top of the dist.

Do a test of the TB ignition system per the manual.

I think we've been ignoring the ignition system just because steve said he has spark.




...and while we're at it. Why are we giving the machine shop a pass. The cam may be installed wrong or a reverse rotation cam may be installed or, or, or

If you don't want to pull the timing cover, get a degree wheel and check the valve timing.
 

StevNimrod

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

my experience with the edelbrock 1410 on a 350 or 383 is that they're way too lean - especially in the idle circuit.

couple of things to check regarding the carb once you're sure the spark is right. when you look down the carb while cranking the engine over, if you can see gas running past the needles (down into the intake) the fuel pressure is probably too high.

I'll have to check the fuel pressure once I get the gumption to get up and moving.

they can be very sensitive to float height and pretty much never come right from the factory. I have my floats set an 3/8 and 15/16. a little lower than spec, but seems much less susceptable to having the needles overpowered. did that based on someone elses recommendation.

I didn't understand this. What are your floats set at?

I have the tuning kit so I'll be able to do the needles and seats swap. And I'll move the accel pump to it's richest setting.

1/4 turn past zero lash is just fine for start up. If you;re running a flat tappet cam, break the cam in and then set them hot. depending on what lifters and cam you're running, probably a half turn past zero lash for hot.

I'm running a roller cam, custom grind from Chris Straub. I think you were the one who turned me on to his cams.

does your second pueple wire you talked about go to an oil pressure switch on the side of the engine? It's to cut the engine out when no oil pressure. I might bypass the switch for getting it running on the stand to eliminate another variable.

The second purple wire does go to an oil pressure switch. I'll try bypassing it next time I go to try to start it.

come to think of it, I had major hassles with electric fuel pumps making too much pressure for both a 600 and a 750 edelbrock until I put a good regulator in it. my 383, with the same carb on it as yours right now, is doing fine on a mechanical. I have a small cheap fuel pressure gauge in the line right next to the carb so i can see what it's doing if there's any doubt.

Good luck with it! and feel free to ask whatever might be helpfull. sounds like what you;re doing is very similar to what I've got in the little boat here now.

It's funny because I actually went out of my way to get the fuel pump Merc makes for carbed engines, under the impression that I wouldn't have fuel pressure problems. I'll see if I can order a regulator today. Any particular one you suggest? Summit is not too far and I could probably have one in hand today.
 

StevNimrod

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

I have faith in the machinist setting them right... if you get it running and it runs like crap, then worry about the valve adjustments. as long as they're not way too tight or way too loose they'l be fine for initial startup. you're going to set them hot as soon as you get a convenient opportunity to do so anyhow....;)

I too have faith in the machine shop setting them right. Not necessarily because they did, but because it'll be a good conversation if they didn't. Then again, stranger things have been known to happen.
 

StevNimrod

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

There's a SS toothy thingy that triggers the hall effect module. That thing can get bent and not pass cleanly between the pick-up and not be firing all the time.

Make sure the dist cap is sitting squarely on top of the dist.

Do a test of the TB ignition system per the manual.

I think we've been ignoring the ignition system just because steve said he has spark.

...and while we're at it. Why are we giving the machine shop a pass. The cam may be installed wrong or a reverse rotation cam may be installed or, or, or

If you don't want to pull the timing cover, get a degree wheel and check the valve timing.

Are you talking about the rotor? I put a new cap and rotor on when I swapped parts over but I can try another rotor. From what I remember I had to bend the teeth on the new one in order for it to pass through the pickup cleanly.

I'm pretty sure the cam isn't one for reverse rotation, but I'll have to verify valve timing.
 

jtybt

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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730
Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

...and get the P/N for that cam.

Gotta be something dumb/simple.

Out of the dozen or so engines I've built over the last 20 years, the only problem I've ever had with starting was bad electrical/solenoid connections that prevented turning the engine over.
 

jtybt

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

I bet that toothy thingy is your whole problem. Ran into that when I swapped a standard Ign for the TB IV. Had a hard time getting the old one off and tried to re-use it...not a good idea.
 

StevNimrod

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

...and get the P/N for that cam.

Gotta be something dumb/simple.

Out of the dozen or so engines I've built over the last 20 years, the only problem I've ever had with starting was bad electrical/solenoid connections that prevented turning the engine over.

I bet that toothy thingy is your whole problem. Ran into that when I swapped a standard Ign for the TB IV. Had a hard time getting the old one off and tried to re-use it...not a good idea.

I don't think there's a P/N for the cam since it's a custom grind. That and I've managed to lose the cam card somehow.

I'm going to make my one trip out of bed to pick up another rotor and see if I can't grab the carb while I'm out. At least I know I can change needles and seats on one elbow.
 

wca_tim

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

I'll have to check the fuel pressure once I get the gumption to get up and moving.

I didn't understand this. What are your floats set at?

when you set the floats (by bending the portion that contacts the needle valve center), you set both max height and drop. I set the max height at 3/8 which is a 1/16th lower than specified in the manual, it seems to help a lot with the tendency to push gas past the floats I have had a problem with for these carbs.

I have the tuning kit so I'll be able to do the needles and seats swap. And I'll move the accel pump to it's richest setting.

Great n tuning kit. those may not be just right for your engine, but they're working really well for mine right now. what are you running for heads?

I'm running a roller cam, custom grind from Chris Straub. I think you were the one who turned me on to his cams.

I've never personally used Chris so you must be thinking of someone else (I'll take that as a compliment), but he has a very good reputation and has obviously been succesful in the performance marine engine world and grinding cams for a good long time. To be frank, if he knows your set-up and spec'd the cam for you, I would lean toward trusting his take on it more than any of us. I'm seriously considering a cam with more duration and a good bit more lift this fall and he is one of the two people I'm planning to call and decide between to get it from.


The second purple wire does go to an oil pressure switch. I'll try bypassing it next time I go to try to start it.

It's funny because I actually went out of my way to get the fuel pump Merc makes for carbed engines, under the impression that I wouldn't have fuel pressure problems. I'll see if I can order a regulator today. Any particular one you suggest? Summit is not too far and I could probably have one in hand today.

It might be fine, I already had someone elses electric fuel pump and that's the one I had a problem with. If i were you I might wait and see if it was a problem, maybe invest 20 in one of the cheap fuel pressure gauges you can get at any auto sture and install it right in front og your carb where you can see it, maybe even wait and see if you have a problem before you do that. (can't remember the fuel pump brand name, it was a stock replacement or oem supplier marine electric). I used a very experienced performance marine builder for this last engine and he was the one that told me to use a mechanical pump...

is it firing at all? if you're seeing spark when you ground a plug, but it's not even firing, I would think about making sure you're getting enough fuel first, if it's doing some popping and firing here and there, I would think about the electrical and timing issues first. I will tell you that mine will not fire right up with just a squirt or two from the accellerator pump, it takes several good pumps, etc... I'm running a single plane intake which might make some difference in that respect, but is sounds like you're somewhat similar.

I'm with bt doctor on installing the distributor in the "correct" position and with the cap on such that the numbers are correct.

I'm curoius, what heads you're running and about what compression you've got and what you decided for an intake. if you're running decent heads you might need jetting something like I mentioned above or even fatter rods.

On the cam issues, I would get in touch with "the man" you bought it from if you want to know anything.

on setting valves... if I can't trust a machine shop to do that right, i sure as heck wouldn't trust them to blueprint / reference bore a block and all the other stuff that goes into a decent build...

last of all, don't get discouraged. everyone has had some frustration setting something like this up before. hang in there, pay attention to what you're doing and think about the grin you'll get later, once you finally get it set up dialed in and all the kinks worked out, and can let it rip...

hope you're out from under the weather soon! Cheers
 

StevNimrod

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

I forgot that the float has two settings - height and drop. I'll take the carb off and reset them as well as make the suggested changes.

For heads I'm running a set of stock Vortec's. Nothing special.

If it wasn't you it's another one of you guys with sick fast boats. The name escapes me now...I'll have to look later on. Either way, I'll give Chris a call or shoot him an e-mail.

I'm getting a bit of popping if I move the throttle, but other than that I'm dead in the water.

I'm with you on the machine shop and setting valves. If that's what it turns out being I can only imagine what else is FUBAR.

I'm admittedly a little discouraged, and more than a little annoyed. Then again, that's how these boat things always are. I figure if I keep at it long enough it'll finally start...or winter will be here.

I'll try to make a video of my efforts today so you can see exactly what it's doing.
 

dr_bowtie

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Messages
281
Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

popping when you open the throttle is usually an indication of wrong timing....

you wired the cap in a Clockwise direction correct...? with the firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2...?
 

StevNimrod

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

Eureka! I got the engine to run!

I've learned that triple checking things sometimes doesn't work as well as tearing it all apart and starting fresh.

This time I pulled the #1 spark plug and bumped the starter until my thumb came off the hole. When I looked up at the rotor it was pointing at #6 instead of #1.

Put the plug back in and hooked back up the wire, gave the throttle a few pumps and it came to life.

Many thanks to you guys on this! Now it's time to change rods and jets in the carb.

BTW, Tim, which springs are you talking about for the step-up? I checked the chart that came with my kit and Silver and Blue are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
 

n2ostroker

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

The step up springs are down in with the secondary rods. They determine when the rod starts to raise out of the hole. On each side of the carb you'll back off the screws holding down the small plates enough so the plate swings to the side. The plunger holding the rod will pop up and the spring is underneath. I run the pink springs in mine and they seem to give the best response.
 

n2ostroker

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

Congrats!
I knew it had to be something simple. It always pays to back off and start over sometimes. It's easy to get things off when frustrated.
 

wca_tim

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

Congrats!!!!


and sorry on the springs! that memory thing is getting worse... Not sure why the heck I said blue... should have been pink. Mine had a HUGE off idle fall on your face hole pretty much no matter what I did with jets and rods while it had the original orange spring in it, got better with the pink spring, lots better with silver, played with jets some more and wala. If I remember right, even when the plug reads looked good and things were running well at idle and most of the throttle and rpm range, I still had a little bit of an off idle lean hesitation. I think that opening up the idle screw a little more helped get rid of it.

Let us (me) know how it runs! enjoy putting it in and then eventually the satisfaction of riding around in it.
 

dr_bowtie

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Messages
281
Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

you pick the springs according to engine vacuum....the carbs manual will explain it or I can post up the info if need be....

basically you dont want the spring working and lifting the rods at idle...
 

wca_tim

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

finally, you're probably pulling a good bit more vacuum than a stock engine at idle and will have a major hassle with getting things to run right until you swap the step down springs to the silver ones (may be able to back off to PINK, but you have to play with it).

yessir :) pink for 7 inHG at idle, silver for 8.... Just did it again a few weeks ago. mine was between 7 and 8, runs a good bit better with silver. fairly similar kind of build, good place to start if you don't have a vacuum gauge handy.
 

gene8084

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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

I know your looking for something simple.

Have you confirmed the direction of rotation for your rotor? I would think counter clockwise. If you've got the firing order correct, but the cable patching backwards this could be your fix.​
 

jtybt

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: 383 Initial Startup Problem

Congrats! Told you it was probably something dumb/simple.

I just haven't fooled with the Carter/Weber/Edelbrock carb. Only Q-jet and spreadbore holley.
 
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