4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

[rayjay]

I know that we will eventually be forced to low emission motors but do you fellas think that the 4 stroke motors will be as troublefree as the better 2 strokes? <br /><br />A well maintained 2st is a very reliable motor. As long as you use a good 2s oil with good anti-corrosion properties there is very little that can go wrong. Letting them sit is what kills them.<br /><br />A 4s just has a lot more parts which is more opportunity for failure. The pounding ride that a boat endures in rough water requires a well designed oil sump to keep the oil pressure constant. It looks like most of these motors are OHC and many have belt drive. This belt and tensioner will require regular care. Let the valves get loose or tight and you have a problem. Lots more parts to buy if you have a failure.<br /><br />What do you pros think ? Will a 2005 4s still be running good 20 or 30 years from now ??

 

[walleyehed]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

No pro here, but I think time will only tell....

 

[Solittle]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

Ray - The speculation is sure to follow. Best way to get the answer to your question is to come back here to iboats around 2025 or 2035 and see what problems are being posted. I'll bet there will be a few on how to decarb their 1985 115 hp rude.<br /><br />My thing is not with the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke contraversy it is with the technology and the cost. I am a driveway mechanic and I enjoy doing my own thing. I am not about to dig into a 2005 motor be it 2 cycle or 4. You need special tools, computers, etc, etc etc to do anything. <br /><br />My newest motor is 18 years old (oldest is 30) and I can do most anything to them and hope to keep doing so.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

In 2035 we'll be talking about those antique 2 stroke things way back when. <br /><br />No pro here either but my gut feeling is that 4 stroke EFI is a step in the right direction. EFI maintenance will become second nature, diagnostic equipment cheaper and more user friendly, more and more the onboard diagnostics will actually work properly - its been happenning in the auto world for the past 10 years or so, it'll come to the marine world.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[Jason S in WA]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

One of the boating magizines just did a test recently on two -vs- four. It was a flat dead tie. Operating costs, weight, performance, sound and reliability all right at equal. As to wether fours will be here in 30 years? How many old cars you see running around? Lots of them. Four strokes are more easily understod by a lot of people because it is whats under the hood of thier car. Two strokes my gut feeling will eventually be phased out over emmisions. They are taking the first steps now with this 2 and 3 star deal. More will follow and eventually when you are burning oil for lubrication it is not going to be able to keep up all the way. Once was a time when 2 stroke diesel trucks ruled the road for the over the road haulers. Had way more power and better reliability but alas they are all gone a victim of emmisons. As to longevity? Four strokes should be easier because there really is less you have to do to them to keep them running for a long time. Also take a look at some of the older Hondas out there. Keep going and going and going. <br /><br />Just my opinion. More people have had problems with twos because of lack of maintenance than will with fours.

 

[bossee]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

Hi,<br />The closest guess how well a 4-stroke could run even after many many years of use is probably to check the older Honda 4-strokes. Honda have made 4-strokes a long time. Probably they do not break more often then other outboards, but that is only a guess.<br />The problem with the new 2-stroke direct fuel injection outboards 2- or 3-star rated etc (Yamaha HPDI, Mercury Optimax, Evinrude E-tech) is that they have the electronic boxes that may be a weak spot in the future. So in that area they are more complicated although not as mecanically complicated as a 4-stroke. As for the drive belt/chain: if You follow the manual when it is recommended to be changed You should have little risk of failure there I think. How often do they break in a car? Not that often (but it happen...)

 

[walleyehed]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

2-stroke still beat any 4-stroke made, to the 3 star rating...emmisions have little to do with which one will last...and write this on your calender, 2-strokes will NEVER be replaced by 4-strokes...as much as some would like to believe, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

Merc is going all 4-stroke. Look for even the Opti's to be phased out over the next few years. But I don't expect that from Yamaha or Johnnyrude. They have GOOD DFI 2-strokes. OptiMax has been a major disappointment. They perform well, but their track record regarding reliability is dismal. If this means anything, my 4-stroke lawnmower is about 40 years old now and still starts in one or two pulls.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

The technology is there to build 4 stroke motors that get the $*%& beat out of them when ever they are used. Just look at all the 4 stroke off road bikes and quads. I know it a different platform, but they get every bit of the same harsh treatment that outboards do, if not more. Including dirty air, higher temps, constant on throttle/off throttle, clutch dumping, over revving etc. They seem to be holding up just fine.<br /><br />Next will be a complete line of performance exhaust headers, cams, pistons, high lbs fuel injectors, chip tuners, etc just because they are 4 stroke. Folks love to hot rod their 4 strokes!<br /><br />Mark

 

[johnrude]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

If you check out the new evinrude etec you will see they kill the 4 strokes in all areas. Better fuel milage, less emmissions, and no where close to the service needed with the 4 stroke. Check out www.evinrude.com

 

[Triton II]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

I suspect the only new outboards by 2020 will be LNG (liquid Natural Gas) four-strokes which must conform to emission regulations at least four times as rigorous as CARB 2008. I also suspect that almost every fresh water lake in the world will have horsepower/emission regulations that will literally make anyone without an outboard that conforms being barred from using the lake.

 

[montanaman]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

DFI two strokes run as clean or cleaner than 4 strokes. As far as 4 strokes being better than 2 strokes I would have to say that is personal preference. It would be interesting to see a supercharged 2 stroke diesel strapped to the back of a boat though.

 

[Qld_Kev]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

I think the 4 strokes will be eridacated eventually. 4 strokes have less emissions?? does this take into account oil changes. This can add up to more oil than some of the latest 2 strokes would have burnt for the same period. Lets look at the overall polution not just what is burnt when running.

 

[Jason S in WA]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

Originally posted by walleyehed:<br /> 2-stroke still beat any 4-stroke made, to the 3 star rating...emmisions have little to do with which one will last...and write this on your calender, 2-strokes will NEVER be replaced by 4-strokes...as much as some would like to believe, it ain't gonna happen.

If two strokes are so good why do the automobile maunfactures not use them?<br /><br />In 15 years the only two strokes we will see will be antiques. Most quad runners, dirt bikes and even lawn mowers are going four stroke because of emmisons. Two strokes will keep up with emmissons for a while more but eventually the technology will not be able to go any furthur.<br /><br />As to the oil change poster. Did you know most oil gets purified and recycled to industrial applications now? Most of these "fleet" type vehicles you see running these days use almost purely recycled oil. Heck the Navy used there own purification system on ships now to purify oil and never changes it out. It adds as needed from losses.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

This is from Trade Only Today from the marine industry:<br /><br /><br />New E-TEC ads: ‘Two is greater than four’ <br /><br />After what it calls months of research, planning and creative development, BRP Inc. has launched a new integrated advertising campaign for its Evinrude E-TEC 2-stroke outboards.<br /><br /> <br /><br />The campaign has three components: print advertising, a 30-minute infomercial and two 30-second commercials. The company says the campaign ties in with an overall sales and marketing strategy to educate consumers about the E-TEC technology.<br /><br /> <br /><br />The print ads will be appearing in more than 20 freshwater, saltwater, regional, boating and trade publications throughout the United States and Canada. However, BRP says its most important investment is in the broadcast campaign.<br /><br /> <br /><br />The first Evinrude E-TEC infomercial began airing last week. BRP says the program “pits Evinrude E-TEC against the best 4-strokes that Mercury and Yamaha have to offer, and proves that two is greater than four.”<br /><br /> <br /><br />The two 30-second commercials will air on networks and cable syndications through the United States. The spots will also air on outdoor television programs sponsored by Evinrude E-TEC in the Southeastern U.S., and several fishing programs. These include “Addictive Fishing” with Blair Wiggins, “Fishing the Wildside” with Tommy Skarlis, “The Mad Fisherman” with Charlie Moore, “Capra Outdoors,” and the Denny Brauer fishing show on ESPN.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Evinrude E-TEC will co-sponsor the NCAA Southeast Conference college basketball tournament airing on CBS in early March, with ads beginning this month. In addition, E-TEC ads will be featured during eight NASCAR events, including the Daytona 500.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Starting in May ads will run during The Ultimate Playground on Outdoor Life Network. This program is an action-adventure series of eight half-hour episodes sponsored by BRP. Evinrude E-TEC will be prominently featured as part of the programming.

 

[JRJ]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

It was fun to drive a twin turbo with blower V8 then V12 Detroits....A cloud of smoke and a hi ho silver...They won't be back....and thats that.

 

[steam_mill]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

In 2003 I purchased a new Merc 90 2 stroke. The reason for it is based on my fuel consumption yearly (about $500) it would take me 10 to 15 years to recoup the upgraded cost to a 4 stroke (about $2000 more).<br /><br />I also thought that my other outboards at the time (1954 7.5 'rude and 1972 50 hp 'rude) ran great and lasted. I looked for longevity. 2 stroke last a long time.<br /><br />Will 4 strokes last as long. The Honda corelation makes sense.<br /><br />In 10 year, I think that E-TEC, HPDI, Optimax etc. will be dead. There will only be 4 strokes with catalytic converters. Some Carbs, mostly EFI. <br /><br />It only makes sense for emissions etc.

 

[johnrude]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

How can the etec go dead when its cleaner then the 4 strokes.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

Jason.S, Low RPM torque, and low RPM in general is why 4 strokes are used in autos....Not even close to the same application here.<br />The E-TEC flat smokes any 4 stroke outboard, period. Don't care if we're talking fuel burn, power, emmisions, weight, cost, anything.<br />The standard DFI Rudes are doing as well if not better than most 4 strokes.<br />I remember when this all came about back in the early 90's, maybe even ealier, that 2 strokes would be gone by the year 2000......well, it's 2005 and nothing will touch the E-TEC 2 stroke......Hummmmmmm.

 

[BillP]

Re: 4 Stroke Really Better Than 2 Stroke ?

I think if Etecs had been introduced 10 yrs ago we wouldn't be seeing 4 strokes around. <br /><br />But to answer the question about one being better. It is popular or politically correct to run 4 strokes now. Think about this. The most popular car (as measured in sales) is the Ford Focus. Is it the best?<br /><br />I've been running a 50 x 4 stroke for 9 years. I bought it ONLY to reduce smoke in the cockpit at slow speeds. What does it do better than my older carbed 2 strokes? It gets better fuel range, idles quieter and doesn't smoke. All the things that modern 2 strokes do with less parts. My next motor will be the Etec.