470 water pump...alternative?

[dieselram94]

Hey guys, I just bought a old Glastron x19 off eBay with a "rebuilt" 470...we'll see...
Anyways, after reading up on these it seems the water pump on engine is prone to failure...having not actually looked at one of these yet; is it possible to deleate the pump all together and instead plum a stand alone belt driven pump from a old Volvo penta? Like from a Aq set up? Not sure if the passages cast into the motor make this impossible or not?

 

[Bt Doctur]

you can force feed it but your still left with the seals for the camshaft. And its the seals and camshaft grooving that are damaged.

 

[nola mike]

Yeah, it's the cam shaft seals. That being said, it seems the repair will likely outlast you. And I haven't had to do it yet. Let's see some pics of my doppelganger!

 

[stonyloam]

Yeah I am with mike! Get it running, and whin you get it up to operating temperature (when the cooling system is fully pressurized) check for coolant leaking out of thr weep hole on the lower starboard side of the engine water pump. No leak = no problem! Check for any antifreeze drips on the pump as a matter of routine when you check your oil before every use. If it leaks, change the seals, use spedi sleeves if the cam is grooved.

 

[Mercruiser420]

Some people plug the weep hole when the cam seal leaks to mask the problem, make sure its clear before assuming you have no leaks

 

[dieselram94]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to pick it up tomorrow. It hasn't been started in six years so it's going to have at least a few issues. Lol I'm kinda liking what I'm reading about these little engines. They seem to be nice and simple. I'm really hoping it had antifreeze in it. My gut feeling is it does. Anyone know the part number for the speedi sleeves needed?

 

[Bt Doctur]

you would need to mic your camshaft first

 

[stonyloam]

The 470 is sensitive to overheating, so you need to change the outdrive impeller first thing. It MIGHT be OK on muffs if you have good water pressure, but chances are it would fail if you tried running it in thr water. You are going to want to pull the outdrive to lube the u-joints and check the gimbal bearing anyway. I would change the impeller and housing to be safe.

 

[dieselram94]

Ok, got it home. Had to stop and get two new tires on trailer as they were cracking bad!
Anyways it's been years under a tarp, everything seems to have surface corrosion, the trim didn't want to work at first but after much playing around it now works perfectly. It does have antifreeze, but had leaked down some...possibly because of one missing hose clamp and/or the plastic tank has been epoxied and duct taped so I'm betting it leaks as well. Starter motor just clicks (solenoid) so I'm betting it's rusted tight...big problem is motor seems stuck (tried wrench on balancer bolt) so I'm guessing it could be rusted balancer to the windings of generator? Which was replaced and never used after! He did have receipts for the motor rebuild. Claims it has been bored out already...

 

[dieselram94]

Oh yeah, pulled dipstick and oil is at proper level and looks brand new...

 

[Mercruiser420]

What do the spark plugs look like?

 

[dieselram94]

I only pulled number three (if I remember correctly) as the rest had too much debris around them from the exhaust gasket rusting away. It looked perfect though. No rust whatsoever. I know I need to pull number four though as that one is most likely to have water intrusion. From the looks of all the corrosion on everything and starter being rusted up so it is just a dead short (no spin but housing started getting warm) I'm thinking the issue is the stator being rusted to the balancer, or maybe gimbal bearing is frozen? I am planning as the weather warms up and my knee feels better (I'm recovering from a fractured bone and partially torn acl) to pull all plugs,exhaust manifold and probably the drive. I originally bought boat to part out but the trailer and hull are in excellent shape. Interior not so much. I have no idea at this point of any stringer or transom rot but floor is solid.

Any idea how close the stator sits to balancer? Just wondering how likely it could be rusted together.

 

[stonyloam]

Chances are the rotor (balancer) is not the problem. Plenty of room there, the rotor is lined with magnets, and the stator is mostly copper windings. Sounds like it is just stuck. Pull the plugs band shoot in some marvel mistory oil. Be careful on that rotor nut, if it strips or snaps that would not be good. The rotor has a couple of threaded holes that you should be able to screw in a couple of bolts and put a bar on.

 

[dieselram94]

Ok thanks, I'll shoot each plug hole with some oPb Blaster for now as I don't have any mystery oil here (I'm a long way from anywhere!) lol. I'll be sure to post my findings.

 

[dieselram94]

No Title

 

[dieselram94]

Ok, pulled number 2,3,4 number one was to hard to get to (close to tank) number 2 piston was close to top and is perfectly clean...its new as in rebuilt new. Number 3 I couldn't see, number 4 looked rusty...er... So I sprayed half a can of PB Blaster down number 4 and gave 2 and three healthy shots as well. How water get in there? It has antifreeze in it. If it was antifreeze would it rust like that as it evaporates? I have the style riser where it dumps sea water directly into riser above outlet. And I believe it was drained prior to storage. It also was kept covered so it shouldn't be rain water through carb. Perhaps just condensation?
This is just a shame, doesn't even have carbon on the one piston I could see...

 

[dieselram94]

No Title

Number 4 plug

 

[Mercruiser420]

Can you pressure test the cooling system?

 

[nola mike]

You can get that rust from it sitting on the surface. Plug itself looks rich rather than "steam washed" (aka AF in the cylinder). Is there water actually in the cylinder? You can get both water and/or AF in the cylinder, depending on what's failing. Most common cause is a bad riser/reservoir or leaking elbow gasket. I'd still pull the drive as the first step (you need to do that anyway, takes 10 minutes if nothing's rusted together) and see if the motor spins with the plugs out. Did you check to see if your starter is what's causing the bind? is the bendix/starter gear retracted? I'd free up the motor, pull the valve cover head, spin by hand to make sure your valves are opening/closing appropriately and there's no water in the cylinders, and fire 'er up.

 

[dieselram94]

I can probably borrow a pressure tester, I did not see any water, it looked dry. But visible rust in number four. Looked like top of piston was rusty, even though its aluminum. The way the riser is set up its hard for me to believe it's possible for it to dump water into manifold.
That's what I thought with the plug as well, not steam cleaned. Lol
It had a tarp over it for six straight years, I'm thinking intake valve was open and rust is from humidity? Even the steering cable is frozen up.
I put two bolts in balancer and used a big wrench wedged in and tried to turn...no go. I only put maybe 80 lb ft of pressure though. I haven't pulled starter off yet, but I know it's rusted up as well. Possibly I'll pull it off tomorrow and try freeing it up.

I'm wondering how much the flame arrester and intake assembly would sweat in those conditions? Probably boat tipped back so any condensation ran back to number four?