5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Bondo

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Ayuh,... That don't look to bad,....

Ya do understand, the area that Matters, is the 1/4" surroundin' the exhaust passage through the center, right,..??

'tween the water passages is irrelevant, 'n the outer perimeter is 2ndary,...
 

Swill008

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Yes Sir, I understand. Just a little bum fuddled, can't find any rust trail toward the exhaust manifold, or down the risers.

But I'm going to go on your thought process, unless I have a cracked head ect. It's the most likely scenario.

Thanks for the ideas and replying.

Dunno if I have broken forum practices or offended people, but you're the only one it seems lately that replies to my questions! If I have offended anyone it wasn't intentional! Sorry if that's the case.

So thanks again!
 
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Swill008

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion


Still have a head gasket leak, although not as severe it's still there. Also just to show you how rotten my exhaust threads are.

So what do you guys recommend I do? I'm thinking I should contact the rebuilder and show him this. Have him supply intake gaskets and head gaskets then take to local shop and have the heads decked and blocked decked.

Can a block be decked without tear down? Or does it have to go all the way to the block (pistons removed ect)?

Thanks!
 

Bondo

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Still have a head gasket leak, although not as severe it's still there. Also just to show you how rotten my exhaust threads are.

So what do you guys recommend I do? I'm thinking I should contact the rebuilder and show him this. Have him supply intake gaskets and head gaskets then take to local shop and have the heads decked and blocked decked.

Can a block be decked without tear down? Or does it have to go all the way to the block (pistons removed ect)?

Thanks!

Ayuh,.... Ya got a head gasket leak, Donno why, but ya had the heads off, did ya check the heads, 'n block deck for Flatness with a straight edge,..??
Were the heads, 'n block deck Cleaned, before ya put it back together,..??

The block needs to be Completely stripped Bare to deck the block,...

I guess it's time to pull the heads back off, 'n check 'em over, better than ya did before,...

As for the exhaust manifold bolt holes,... That's a Non-Issue,...
They just hold the manifolds on,...
No water, Anywhere near those gaskets,...

With the rust tracks in yer pervious pictures, I'm seein' the leaks at the gasket surfaces of the manifolds/ risers/ elbows, as I said before,...

'n I donno why nobody else is postin' in this thread,...
It's the middle of Winter, 'n many posters aren't as Hardcore as Myself,...
 

Swill008

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Ayuh,.... Ya got a head gasket leak, Donno why, but ya had the heads off, did ya check the heads, 'n block deck for Flatness with a straight edge,..??
Were the heads, 'n block deck Cleaned, before ya put it back together,..??

The block needs to be Completely stripped Bare to deck the block,...

I guess it's time to pull the heads back off, 'n check 'em over, better than ya did before,...

As for the exhaust manifold bolt holes,... That's a Non-Issue,...
They just hold the manifolds on,...
No water, Anywhere near those gaskets,...

With the rust tracks in yer pervious pictures, I'm seein' the leaks at the gasket surfaces of the manifolds/ risers/ elbows, as I said before,...

'n I donno why nobody else is postin' in this thread,...
It's the middle of Winter, 'n many posters aren't as Hardcore as Myself,...

LOL

I did did not check for flatness, however I did clean the crap out of it, was bare. Exhaust turned out to be an issue won't hold torque. Stripped out at 30ft lbs. just got finished resealing my head bolts and installing them. Ill pressure test it again and if still leaking, off come the heads!

Damn right you're hardcore, guessing that makes us both!

Exhaust is currently at the machine shop being resurfaced. They told me they couldn't do the extensions because you needed a magnetic resurfacer. Asked them to source it out if necessary.
 
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Swill008

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion





Got my injectors back. Good thing I got them cleaned according to the report one wasn't doing so hot!

I'll let you guys know how there doing when I get her running again! Going to install now. While I'm pressure testing my cooling system again!

Starting to seem like Groundhog Day!
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

You need to call your vendor who did the rebuild...either the block or the heads are messed up bad for a leak like that....put everything all together would request a new build or have the vendor agree to letting a local shop do that engine right..your in a tough spot here.
 
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Swill008

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

You need to call your vendor who did the rebuild...either the block or the heads are messed up bad for a leak like that....put everything all together would request a new build or have the vendor agree to letting a local shop do that engine right..your in a tough spot here.

Tail_Gunner,

You're exactly correct. I was in contact with the vendor around 4pm today. I let him know what was going on. He wanted me to re-seal and re-torque. I'll do as he asks, I have a local builder spooled up to resurface/re-rebuild this block. I have already discussed another block, but a little gun-shy obliviously I don't trust the company I got this from.
 

Swill008

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion









As you can clearly see it's a nice milkshake. I examined my intake closely and it was not leaking. You can see where it was leaking past the heads. Also my pistons are fairly clean. Maybe I was leaking into the combustion chamber and out of the exhaust. Either way when my exhaust comes back from the shop at least that can be taken out of the equation.

I called and talked to the vendor. Eng was not decked. I requested another engine without the heads installed. To my surprise he agreed and I was called and gave my information. Perhaps this will be a good thing. I may have assumed to much about this vendor. I know sometimes crap gets through, even if we try our hardest. Tune in next week for how "The engine Turns" LOL ;)

I hope round two goes smoother this time. Fingers crossed.
 

harleyman1975

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

This is a very interesting read. I can only think that the core was not looked at very closely prior to being rebuilt. Complacency at its finest.
 

300sflyer

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Interesting read indeed! I likely would have asked for my money back, and bought a new longblock somewhere else. Keep us posted. :)
 

Swill008

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Messages
63
Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion



Got her packaged and shipped back to the rebuilder.

Hoping the rebuilder refunds me my money and doesn't try to hose me over. I'm using this thread for proof of my problems with this build, if things so south.

I've decided to build her myself. I have dropped my crank, cam and heads off at the machine shop for a polish and rebuild. (Old out of my freeze busted block) just need to find a block. (Junkyard - old truck motor perhaps)

My casting coming out of my boat was a 880, question is I know some castings are slightly different (accessory holes ect..). Any castings I should stay away from? I do want one pice oil seal. (Rebuild was a 880 as well)

I'm going to go stock vortec 5.7 vortec bored .030 as I'm on an alpha 1 gen 2. Have to stay within 300hp, don't want to bust her when I drop the hammer. Because we all know I'm going to drop the hammer repeatedly! :) should I go with flat top pistons or dish, recommendations? I want to make sure I can run cheap 87 pump gas.

It's so tempting to build a 383 stroker-! But I'm sure my MEFI ECM wouldn't like that without a new flash. Wish I had a bravo drive!

Also update - have to pick up my manifolds from the shop. They didn't have much experience with marine manifolds - go figure- so they were off about .030 in the low spots Bondo pointed out, and it cost me 272 bucks! Ouch! Is this about normal? All surfaces with the extensions as well. Total of 8 surfaces without machining to the exhaust to block.

They did not have a magnetic resurfacer so they threaded partially two holes to mount them for the resurface. Seemed ingenious to me!

Can I get a milkshake like I had in the intake valley by water getting into the block from my manifolds? I never hydro locked or seen it in the pistons? I think I had multiple issues.

I was Using plastic intake gaskets - I have felpro 9800T, these things should not leak! They look awesome!
(Yes parts turn me on! lol)







Also bought another pair of fel pro 17030 marine head gaskets.



I'll be using ARP studs on my main caps, also thinking about using them in my heads, thinking overkill but I don't want any problems.
 
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Bondo

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Got her packaged and shipped back to the rebuilder.

Hoping the rebuilder refunds me my money and doesn't try to hose me over. I'm using this thread for proof of my problems with this build, if things so south.

I've decided to build her myself. I have dropped my crank, cam and heads off at the machine shop for a polish and rebuild. (Old out of my freeze busted block) just need to find a block. (Junkyard - old truck motor perhaps)

My casting coming out of my boat was a 880, question is I know some castings are slightly different (accessory holes ect..). Any castings I should stay away from? I do want one pice oil seal. (Rebuild was a 880 as well)

I'm going to go stock vortec 5.7 vortec bored .030 as I'm on an alpha 1 gen 2. Have to stay within 300hp, don't want to bust her when I drop the hammer. Because we all know I'm going to drop the hammer repeatedly! :) should I go with flat top pistons or dish, recommendations? I want to make sure I can run cheap 87 pump gas.

It's so tempting to build a 383 stroker-! But I'm sure my MEFI ECM wouldn't like that without a new flash. Wish I had a bravo drive!

Also update - have to pick up my manifolds from the shop. They didn't have much experience with marine manifolds - go figure- so they were off about .030 in the low spots Bondo pointed out, and it cost me 272 bucks! Ouch! Is this about normal? All surfaces with the extensions as well. Total of 8 surfaces without machining to the exhaust to block.

They did not have a magnetic resurfacer so they threaded partially two holes to mount them for the resurface. Seemed ingenious to me!

Can I get a milkshake like I had in the intake valley by water getting into the block from my manifolds? I never hydro locked or seen it in the pistons? I think I had multiple issues.

I was Using plastic intake gaskets - I have felpro 9800T, these things should not leak! They look awesome!
(Yes parts turn me on! lol)


Also bought another pair of fel pro 17030 marine head gaskets.


I'll be using ARP studs on my main caps, also thinking about using them in my heads, thinking overkill but I don't want any problems.

Ayuh,.... Wow, quite a U-turn, eh,..??

For yer piston choice,... Please read this post by a friend(see below), it dances around the point, but the point of pistons for a Vortec headed motor is Well covered,...
In essence, yer lookin' for D-dish, or inverted dome pistons, that mirror yer heads,...
Rick explains it very nicely,....

After readin' that, talk to yer machinist to figure out how much to deck the block, to reach yer .043" quench factor,...
Set up like that, you can approach 10:1 compression, without detonation,....

That seems excessive to flatten yer manifolds, but mine were only 2 surfaces, done on a flat sandin' machine, so no set up work was needed,...

edit; The software here won't allow me to post that link, so,...
Nothin' I can do to post the link,....
Go to Marine Engines Dot Com, down mid-way the main page is "Other Gas Inboard Mfgs IO and Sterndrive Questions",...
The 1st thread in that forum( V6 to V8 engine swap) has the Info I'm tryin' to get ya,...
 
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Swill008

Seaman
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Oct 31, 2013
Messages
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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Hey Bondo!

Yes sir very sharp U-Turn! Just seems like when I talk to engine builders they want to slap it together and disregard the manufactures specifications. No engine shop does the torque angle method, no one cares about squish. Just slap it together and when it blows we will build you another one. I'm confused on the head bolts - some say torque to yield bolts others say not. I'll just go with studs and take it out of the equation.

So I have decided to do it myself. Perhaps it's my job in the military, among other things I'm a technical inspector and quality control. In this area it seems I'm alone in wanting things right. But besides now I haven't touched an car engine since 1993. That was a rebuild on a 400 SBC.

I'm making mistakes but learning from them. This forum is a trove of information. I went from knowing nothing about a boat and wanting to rip mine down to bare hull like FriscoBoater (among others) did! I'm sure he and others has had a lot of affect on people here! People like you are a ton of help! Thank all of you very much!

I want to go with stock pistons I believe, I'm just wanting to make this engine last. I'll restore it then sell it and buy a cuddy before long. That's if the admiral will let me ;)

BTW that link you posted was dead - seems to be automatically edited and site removed from the URL.
 
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Bondo

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Hey Bondo!

Yes sir very sharp U-Turn! Just seems like when I talk to engine builders they want to slap it together and disregard the manufactures specifications. No engine shop does the torque angle method, no one cares about squish. Just slap it together and when it blows we will build you another one. I'm confused on the head bolts - some say torque to yield bolts others say not. I'll just go with studs and take it out of the equation.

So I have decided to do it myself. Perhaps it's my job in the military, among other things I'm a technical inspector and quality control. In this area it seems I'm alone in wanting things right. But besides now I haven't touched an car engine since 1993. That was a rebuild on a 400 SBC.

I'm making mistakes but learning from them. This forum is a trove of information. I went from knowing nothing about a boat and wanting to rip mine down to bare hull like FriscoBoater (among others) did! I'm sure he and others has had a lot of affect on people here! People like you are a ton of help! Thank all of you very much!

I want to go with stock pistons I believe, I'm just wanting to make this engine last. I'll restore it then sell it and buy a cuddy before long. That's if the admiral will let me ;)

BTW that link you posted was dead - seems to be automatically edited and site removed from the URL.

Ayuh,... I removed the link, 'n explained how to get there instead,...

SBC head bolts are NOT torque to yield,...
Clean 'em up, 'n if they ain't rusted away, Reuse 'em,...
Seal the threads in the wet holes with pipe dope,...
I torque 'em down to 65/ 70ft'lbs...

'n the Stock pistons are 'bout the Worst choice to make, but whatever, it's Yer build,....
I'd go with Hyper over Cast, Forged is over-kill,...

Lastly,... I donno if I said it before, but Thank for yer service to Our Country,.... ;)
 

Swill008

Seaman
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
63
Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Ayuh,... I removed the link, 'n explained how to get there instead,...

SBC head bolts are NOT torque to yield,...
Clean 'em up, 'n if they ain't rusted away, Reuse 'em,...
Seal the threads in the wet holes with pipe dope,...
I torque 'em down to 65/ 70ft'lbs...

'n the Stock pistons are 'bout the Worst choice to make, but whatever, it's Yer build,....
I'd go with Hyper over Cast, Forged is over-kill,...

Lastly,... I donno if I said it before, but Thank for yer service to Our Country,.... ;)

Thank you!

The information you pointed me to is an excellent read! :mindblown:

I agree with you about piston choices. I can see the difference now between what I had vs what I want.

I'm thinking of going with your recommendation D-Dished pistons.

Now if I understand correctly I need a quench of .043 my head gasket compressed is .039. So that leaves my piston in the hole at .004 to get the correct quench. I did read the suggestion as tight as .038. That seems too tight for me.

Now I need to know where I want my piston pin placement and what style piston I need prior to almost zero (.004) decking my block. Am I understanding this correctly?

Do you have a piston recommendation, part number that is hyper and will work with my stock setup? I don't want new rods and preferably not wanting to install pistons to figure out what my current piston to deck is. Of course if that is what I have to do, I will. This is all new to me!

If I have to almost zero deck my block, I would have to then mill my intake correct?

Another thought, if I able to buy a piston with lower pin position I would not have to zero deck the block and just cut to get my pistons at .004 in the hole.

Wow this opens a whole new can of worms! But I did like the suggestion of cleaner burn and improved gas mileage. It's worth it, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it!

Edit: more thoughts!

I'm guessing the only way to get the correct measurements is to mock up before decking. Is this pretty standard for the machine shop to do? Or more performance orientated?
 
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Bondo

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Re: 5.7 Vortec 2BBL to 350 Mag MPI Conversion

Thank you!

The information you pointed me to is an excellent read! :mindblown:

I agree with you about piston choices. I can see the difference now between what I had vs what I want.

I'm thinking of going with your recommendation D-Dished pistons.

Now if I understand correctly I need a quench of .043 my head gasket compressed is .039. So that leaves my piston in the hole at .004 to get the correct quench. I did read the suggestion as tight as .038. That seems too tight for me.

Now I need to know where I want my piston pin placement and what style piston I need prior to almost zero (.004) decking my block. Am I understanding this correctly?

Do you have a piston recommendation, part number that is hyper and will work with my stock setup? I don't want new rods and preferably not wanting to install pistons to figure out what my current piston to deck is. Of course if that is what I have to do, I will. This is all new to me!

If I have to almost zero deck my block, I would have to then mill my intake correct?

Another thought, if I able to buy a piston with lower pin position I would not have to zero deck the block and just cut to get my pistons at .004 in the hole.

Wow this opens a whole new can of worms! But I did like the suggestion of cleaner burn and improved gas mileage. It's worth it, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it!

Ayuh,.... Seein's this is such a U-turn,... Why don't ya start a motor rebuild thread in the non-repair forum, link this 1 to it for reference, 'n let this 1 sink into the archives,...

Ya might also wanta go sign in over there, 'n pick Rick's noggin' 'bout this,...
He get's alot deeper than myself,...

Basically, ya buy the pistons ya want, by head shape, 'n yer machinist will deck the block to match,...

The stock rods will need to be resized, not replaced,...
I'd also go the extra, 'n have the rotatin' assembly balanced, it's cheap insurance, that pays off in extended life,...
 
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Swill008

Seaman
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Messages
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Alright conversion is complete from 2 barrel to 350 MAG MPI is complete. I have three hours of run time on my setup - trying to break it in. I am using a scan tool (USB) and scanner pro.

Questions:

Under full load at 3000'ish RPMs the ECU is commanding 30deg spark advance, is this normal? I could not find the timing curve chart - maybe I overlooked it, I'm using manual #24.

I still need to put my timing light on it while operating it to see my actual max spark advance. I'll get that next run. I have a MEFI 3 ECU installed. I'm also running hyper pistons which actually recommend to decrease timing by - 2 degrees - if I understand correctly that means set base timing @ 6 deg instead of 8 deg.

My throttle body for the 1999-2000 MPI is the old school style - it has the stud in the center not the three studs on the outside diameter holding the flame arrestor. I have another old school throttle body, same style, that is in better shape (fresh water used - my installed was obliviously salt water). I would like to use the fresh water throttle body because of aesthetics but the stud is broken in the center. I've seen what appeared to me, to be a way to install with a clamp, not using a center stud. Can someone point me to where I can find the information or parts for using a clamp, if it's possible?

Another question: I have a 4 inch heat exchanger installed. The style installed has the raw water discharges coming from the left and right end caps to my manifolds. My port side manifold runs quite a bit warmer then my SB. I can keep my hand on it for over a min, so I don't believe it's detrimental. However, my ECU is installed on port side and heat kills electronics. In my system I do not have any type of diverter balls, my issue is flow diversion. Is there a way to use a diverter style in my setup or do I need to buy a new style heat exchanger to do what I'm wanting?

INFO/ISSUES FOR CONVERSION:


For anyone doing this conversion, you can not use the carbureted shift interrupt switch as designed in a MEFI system.

The carbureted style switch is normally open, which is what I had, it grounds out the negative coil wire to stumble the system. The MEFI system uses an normally closed switch that sends signal to the ECU to case stumble.

My fuel pressure under load is 32psi (cant remember exactly 32-34psi), right on for the older style MPI system. Newer style requires 43 psi, this was a correction to my first few posts about fuel pressure. For those that do not know there are two style regulators one is 32-34?psi the other is 43 psi.

I also had a problem on my first run with very high fuel pressure was around 60 psi, turned out to be the little filter between the pressure regulator and the cool fuel (old style) body. You'll see it after removal - the blockage causes a return side pressure increase which increases the overall pressure. I removed mine completely - I did not feel that I need it because I still have my Fuel Filter/Water Separator installed and that is where the return fuel goes back to.

Everything runs great, under load - but I get what feels like a small stumble around 1500-2000 rpm, I am thinking I have my plugs gapped incorrectly. I gapped at 45, I think they should have been 65 or so, I cant remember my plugs part number at the moment. Ill update when I have time to find it.

Ill be glad when I can get to WOT, right now I'm babying her.

Also side note it took me a year to complete this project and the first run I put her into the rocks in the river and destroyed the prop and done some damage to the transom area gel coat - I replaced the prop (no damage to the shaft) and did the gel coat repair to the transom. Basically life sucked for the first day - Karma I guess! Don't know who I pissed off!

She's back to normal now!

Thanks for reading.
 
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