5.8FSI No Start

[yknotgo]

Engine is a Volvo/Ford 5.8L FSI PNCD
I think numbers are as follows, but I need to go check sometime
4110131809
3B68537
8's and B's may be wrong, I looked at an blurry photo I had to get these numbers

Took the boat out fishing a couple months ago now probably 120 miles round trip. Ran great there and back. Few days later, go to fuel it up (I keep it in a slip) and it sputtered and died. Had to get towed back. While it was running before it died, it was making an odd whining noise, near the high pressure fuel pump. I read up that the noise can be caused by the pump due to not enough fuel in pump. I tried running fuel from a 5 gal. can just in case I was out of fuel, though I didn't think I was, and that didn't do anything. I replaced both the high and low pressure pumps hoping it was one of those. After I got the low pressure pump in, it started, but I had a couple fuel leaks from fittings I didn't get tight and a bad o-ring. It was dark so I called it a night and worked on it next afternoon. Started it up, idled for a couple mins, then sputtered and died. This time, no whining coming from either pump. Fuel filter is full of fuel, and is in great shape. Engine cranks and cranks, won't fire. One other thing I noticed when it was idling was that it seemed the alternator got really hot. Not sure if that is related.
I sprayed starting fluid in the air intake last week and it fired long enough to burn the fluid, a second or less. So I think my problem is fuel supply related.
I'm going to change the fuel filter to see if somehow it has water and that is my problem. That should of been the first thing I checked. Then I've been asked if I checked fuses, I didn't know there are fuses on the engine, so I got to check that. Circuit breakers are fine though from what I can tell.
Also, does anyone know what scanner tool is used with this engine? I contacted Rinda because I thought they might of made it, but they said they don't for that engine. They said the engine probably uses an automotive type code scan reader. If so, I can maybe to an automotive store to buy one. I'm trying to figure this out and fix it myself before taking it to the shop.

Thank you,

Grady

 

[alldodge]

Ah the good and bad about VP, good motors, good design, but not many knowledgeable to discuss problems with, and documentation is limited.

According to the manual at Boatinfo the MFI Tester 3851324-8. Have searched and no one appears to know how to get one. My only thought is with everythin else VP, its sold to dealers only. Indmar uses the same motor and the Merc scan tool works on them, go figure.

Here is some of what I have on the fuel pump issue

 

[Larson220]

Grady,
I have owned a Boat with this same engine Family for over ten years.
thru trial and error, as well as economic need I have learned the inner workings of the Fuel injection system.
I will tell you that I had a similar issue with my engine.
here are some things I learned:

Check fuel pressure- Get a Fuel pressure tool- any automotive store has it. You can even get it as a loaner tool at some, such as autozone.
Check fuel pressure. It should be around 38-40 psi on the fuel rail by the injectors.
This engine type has a fuel reservoir at the back of the engine. THIS FUEL RESEVOIR CAUSES MANY ISSUES.
It is basically a small fuel tank that stores a small amount of fuel for the high pressure pump. There is a small float inside that is connected to a valve.
the purpose of the valve is to vent excess fuel vapors to the intake manifold.
if you look there is a vent hose that goes to the bottom of the intake air tubes.
What happened to my engine was that the pumps would run and overfill the small tank, thereby flooding the engine.
this would cause a no start condition.
THE SOLUTION- FIX:

 

[Larson220]

Disconnect the vent line from the intake plenum, then connect a long fuel hose to the vent connection at the fuel reservoir and connect it to your boats gas tank if possible. VERY IMPORTANT DO NOT LEAVE THE HOSE DISCONNECTED- FIRE HAZZARD.

 

[Larson220]

You have to put a plug cap on the intake plenum to prevent a vacuum leak. This fix will eliminate many of the fuel pump reservoir issues that plague this system.
The fuel reservoir parts are mostly obsolete. THE ONLY REPLACEMENT PARTS SEEM TO BE THE PUMPS THEMSELVES.
As far as a SCAN TOOL, you can try the EQUUS EPI3145 it is available from tooltopia.com for $21.00

There is also another site called Correctcraftfan.com. This site is for ski boats that use PCM GT 40 engines.
The pleasure craft marine engines were ford Fuel injected engines in the 90's. They are the identical engines, with the same fuel injection system.
search the forums for a tread titled POOR MANS GT 40 DIAGNOSIS.

 

[Larson220]

you will find a wealth of information on these Ford Fuel injected marine engines. The only difference is that Volvo used a different fuel pump system, However all other parts of the fuel injection system are the same.

 

[Larson220]

I have chased issues with my engine in the past. Search the iboat forums for my old user name OCEAN 22.
Read my post.
The issue I was having turned out to be a faulty wiring harness to the fuel injectors. The engine was only running on 5 injectors.
the other cylinders were not receiving any fuel at all.
I chased that issue for several seasons until I decided to take apart the whole wiring harness and rebuild it. (Achilles heel of many marine engines)
The Volvo Penta Ford Based engines were short lived and not very popular, therefore very few people on Volvo Penta sites understand them or have worked on them.
Do yourself a favor and get a repair manual if you do not have one. I would recommend the Volvo penta manual for your engine.

These ford engines are based on the Ford automotive EEC IV fuel injection system, they are generally very reliable and run very strong.
The ford engines do not like to be over revved, however that goes for most engines. I learned that the hard way with my old Volvo penta engine, LOL.
I had to rebuild mine. If you ever have to repower or rebuild, go with a GM based engine, there are far more parts available and it will all be easier
and you will have an engine that most marine sites will have parts in stock.
I hope I was able to help. I went thru many of these issues in the past.
Good luck, feel free to ask any questions. I will try to help.
Roland

 

[yknotgo]

Thank you for the replies. Update. I changed fuel filter. I poured fuel out of the old one, looked like there may have been some water in it. Anyways, after I cranked the engine a few times, and then checked to see if any fuel entered the new filter, none had.
Not sure where that puts me. I'm guessing low pressure fuel pump isn't doing its job. A service manual is a good idea and I keep telling myself to get one, but haven't yet. If really like to learn to diagnose and work on it myself, I just need to learn to be patient and do my homework.

 

[alldodge]

Turn the key to ON and see if you hear or feel the pump run for a couple seconds. If it does, take the fuel line off the low pressure pump which goes to the high pressure pump. Have a container to catch the fuel. Turn the key ON and see if fuel comes out.

You can also put a vacuum fuel pump tester and should get around 7 psi

 

[yknotgo]

I can hear the high pressure pump come on when I turn key to on. I forgot to mention that.

 

[yknotgo]

Also, can you tell if this is the manual that would benefit me?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/351416305356?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

It says is for NC models. I don't know if that comes from PNCD part or if it stands for non-carbureted, or something else.
Thanks for the continued help.

 

[alldodge]

I can hear the high pressure pump come on when I turn key to on. I forgot to mention that.

Does the low pressure pump also come ON?

The manual in the ebay link is the same one I'm using to help here on boatinfo and looks like a great price
http://boatinfo.no/lib/volvo/manuals/nc-ford_mfi.html#/0

 

[yknotgo]

I don't know if the Low is coming on or not. I'm not quick enough to turn key to on and go feel. Although, as typing this, I realized I can pripbsblu disconnect the plug to the high pressure so it doesn't turn on, then I can put key to on and listen for the low pressure. I will try that sometime. Pretty busy woth work and other things next couple of days, but I'm trying to go do these little things as I can.
I'll also order that manual, at the price, it's not a total loss of its the wrong one.

 

[Larson220]

http://www.planetnautique.com/CorrectCraftManuals/GT-40 Service Manual.pdf this manual is the pcm manual not as many photos as volvo but a good diagnostic manual. If your fuel system is in order and both pumps work with proper fuel pressure, then your issue could be ignition related.

 

[yknotgo]

Update: So I put in two new pumps again because the ther two new ones seemed to fail, they quit coming on. I think disconnected what I believe was the return line to the resiviour and connected a hose to it to see if fuel was coming out, which I think would help see if there was blockage in the line or not and also to see if the vacuum valve was opening to allow fuel to flow through the system. Fuel came out with good flow, I didn't know that much fuel went through unburied. Anyways, after that I connected everything and ran the boat for about 10 minutes at speed 3400 rpms. I then slowed down because I was in a sking area where there is a size limit for the boats and I got checked. When I got checked I heard the high pressure pump whining so I went straight back to the slip. So, I'm still not sure what's going on. I started the engine a few minutes after and the whining had stopped, but I just turned it off after and called it a night. I checked the pressure at the fuel rail and it was at about 20 psi at idle, and at the fuel cell, around 7 psi. On the fuel cell, once I turned the engine off, it bled itself out to 0 psi. I don't know if that is normal. I guess my next step may be to listen to Larson and find a way to run the return like to my tank and try that. And/or draw fuel from another source to make sure somehow my tank pickup isn't getting plugged. I just don't feel that would be it, but that means nothing.
Thanks for you time and input.

Grady

 

[alldodge]

Two sets of new pumps and only getting 20 psi, my thought is your not getting fuel to the pump, you have some leaking injectors, or the pressure regulator is the problem. I'm thinking the regulator.

Running the line back to the tank will not help your current issue, your not getting enough pressure. The return to tank is to stop the vapor lock issue

 

[yknotgo]

Thank you for the reply. I'm going to check and make sure all my hose clamps and fittings are tight to make sure I'm not sucking air somewhere, and check regulator to see if maybe the screen is clogged on it. I'll keep trying.

 

[yknotgo]

Update: I continued trying to work on the issue awhile ago and since then no time. During the time I was making an attempt, I cleaned out the little tank in the back and got the correct amount of fuel pressure at the rail. However, after replacing a third low pressure fuel pump, I burned it up again after running boat for about 15-20 mins. I checked the voltage at the wires a couple inches before the connector to the pump and was only getting 7.5 volts. I'm assuming this is too low and wondering if that can cause the pumps to keep burning up. Life has got in the way of me doing much with it, and I'm at a point where I am considering getting rid of the boat to save money for long term financial goals, but I haven't completely decided. I have to pay storage fees and keep it in a slip and paying to have a boat I cannot use is taking its toll. Until then, I'd like to try to get it running myself if possible. The wires seem to lead into the main wiring harness so I assume every thing is good there as it is well wrapped up. Looking for suggestions still. Thanks again

 

[alldodge]

Burning up another low pressure pump in 20 minutes, puzzles me. If the motor is burning up then there is something else in line with the pump which is increasing the current. If the current was increased then the 20 amp fuse should blow. Now if the pump still runs but stops pumping fuel then this may be something else.

Is it overheating or just not pumping?

 

[yknotgo]

Burning up another low pressure pump in 20 minutes, puzzles me. If the motor is burning up then there is something else in line with the pump which is increasing the current. If the current was increased then the 20 amp fuse should blow. Now if the pump still runs but stops pumping fuel then this may be something else.

Is it overheating or just not pumping?

It's not pumping. When I put the key to "on" position, there is no noise. Does low voltage burn up pumps?