5.8l OMC Cobra Rebuild - 1995 Four Winns 220 Horizon

[tjtheman007]

Alright! To start off, this is my 2nd boat. It is a Teal 1995 Four Winns 220 Horizon with the Ford 351W (5.8l) EFI. Has the Volvo SX Outdrive (Cobra SX). Pictures are at the end of this post. (First boat I owned one was a red 1994 Four Winns 190 Horizon with the carbed Ford 302 5.0l. and a Volvo SX outdrive. Loved that boat! It even had a factory installed live well. and the full camper bimini top that covered the entire rear of the boat.)


Got this teal 220 for a GREAT deal because it has a rod knock. Otherwise, the interior is gorgeous and so is the hull. I bought it from the original owner. While there is no hour meter, it was said and looks to have really low hours. (Pulling the heads will tell the whole story.) It does still start RIGHT UP and run (and still sounds strong actually) but def. has a rod knock so I did NOT run it long at all, only a couple seconds. (That EFI was NICE)

I will be pulling the 5.8l engine on the 95 220 in the next weekend or so. Being that it has a rod knock and it'll require new bearings, rods, rings, and POSSIBLY crank shaft. (Will know more once I get it pulled apart.

I have to figure out WHY it has a rod knock. Flappers fail? Stuck exhaust valve? (No fuel was in the oil, but another possibility I suppose.) Current plan is just to rebuild to stock configuration, but I would love to be convinced to modify it, just somewhat concerned with fuel consumption. (Somebody please convince me to stroke it!?!? lol, although that would probably require a PCM re-program....) If it has low hours, i might not need to have the bores machined, and just a light self hone might do the trick, but pulling the heads will tell.

So, the questions:
1. When I go to order parts, where is the best place to order from? Brand(s)? I know the crank is hardened as it is a marine crank and any machining done takes away some of the properties.
2. Should I assume on replacing additional parts than what I have listed above?
3. What (if any) modifications can/should I do as I'm rebuilding? (Stroker? Heads (GT-40)? etc.
4. Anything else I should look out for/be aware of?

Any other advice when pulling the engine?

I will be replacing the bellows, and other outdrive maintenance pieces while that has to be pulled off anyway.

Thanks for any and all assistance!!


-TJ

 

[Scott Danforth]

Your crank is just a cast crank. Just like pickemup trucks

Talk to your local engine machine shop

You may already have GT40 heads

You do know that there is no support for the Ford marine EFI....correct

 

[tjtheman007]

scott danforth, when you say there is no ford marine efi support, you're referring to tuning the pcm correct? This I know. However, the diagnostic connector is the same as found in early 90's ford trucks (and mustangs) and can be read with a dealer scan tool. I assume it actually can be somewhat programed or chipped, (just like early 90's Mustangs) just not the traditional way we are used to today with obd II.

 

[bruceb58]

No support means no parts. The ignition system is also not supported. Once people have problems, they switch to carbs and another distributor. Just keep that in mind. Personally, I would leave the PCM alone so you don't break it.

 

[tjtheman007]

Thanks so far guys! I do appreciate it!!
I know I'm kinda going into this with a big aspirations, but even just rebuilding the block to stock will be just fine.
Just figured I'd ask if there are any modifications I should be making that the stock efi computer can handle, but ideally want to do everything possible to maintain or better fuel economy.

 

[Scott Danforth]

if you want fuel economy, get a canoe or sail boat. economy and power boating are on opposite ends of the scale

an internal combustion motor such as those used in a boat burn 0.4# of fuel per HP per hour. so to get fuel economy, you need to not use hp. which means smaller boat, or lighter boat or less load. since a boat is an object that starts out as a displacement hull, then needs to fight to become a planing hull, all the while people load them with stuff and people while encountering wind and current. doesnt happen

while the connector is the same. the whole programming on marine motors is marine specific. think PC vs Mac. automotive diagnostic stuff doesn't work on marine motors (and marine stuff doesnt work on cars). you need Rhinda or equivalent

if you want to build a stroker, sell your Ford based stuff, get a GM based motor (that is supported) and build a stroker. or ditch the EFI

 

[Redrig]

nice find ! obviously it would be better with a GM engine , but I would jump on that as well if I could find one in great shape .

It is really easy to tell if you already have gt40 heads , there will be 3 vertical bars on the front of the heads .

But if I were you , I would be doing some serious research on what it takes to switch over to a 350 (or 383) before I started the rebuild on that ford . Its one thing if the ford was tip top shape, but since it needs some serious attention right now would be a great time to convert over to GM , then you will never have worry about NLA parts

 

[Larson220]

I have the exact same engine on a 1995 Larson. My boat is also a 1995. I have owned it since 2005 and the same thing happened to my engine.
Here is my experience:
like you i decided to get the engine rebuilt, but i got a lousy rebuild on the long block. The engine only lasted a couple of seasons.
I am glutton for punishment, so i decided to get engine rebuilt again.
This time a very competent machine shop did the work, but despite the great work on the engine.
I still had issues with the motor.

Here is a list of many things that are inherent issues
with that engine:
Wiring harness is no longer available, wiring connectors fail and will cause all kinds of issues.
I had to rebuild mine from scratch when i realized
that most all connectors and wires were corroded, very long labor intensive project.

Fuel system parts are available, such as fuel pumps and so forth, but not fuel resevoir tank.
Complicated little gizmo that sits in back of engine.
a month ago i paid $450 for a NOS part at a boat
dealer in Florida. I got really lucky to find it.

The PCM computers is non existent, and modifying it
will reqiure vast knowledge of the ford EEC IV progarm which operates on a different loop than a car in that marine version. Do not try to modify or mess with the computer.

You will have to get very good at cross referencing for sensor part numbers if any of them need replacing.

Here is my recomendation:
unless you are a glutten for punishment and want to spend vast sums of money to try to keep an engine that has most parts listed as obsolete.
Switch to a GM engine Bobtail drop in that will mate up with the Excellent VOLVO PENTA SX drive and save your self all the headaches that i have gone thru.

I have missed many great boating seasons in the last 13 years of owning a boat with an engine that is no longer supported with replacement parts.

I wish you good luck, and remember.
Life is too short to waste great boating seasons, and think about how many more fun times you can have with your loved ones and friends when a boat can actually run and be enjoyed.
Good Luck.

 

[tjtheman007]

Wow! This is some awesome feedback from everyone!!!! Thank you!!

Well... I guess I didn't know how good I had it with my old carbed 302 in my previous 190 horizon vs the efi system in this new one. I'll take the 350 swap info under advisement, but for now I believe I will proceed in rebuilding the current 351w that is in the boat. I bought the boat knowing there might be a chance I might not be on the water right away next year anyway as I wanted to learn the differences with this specific marine system vs. its vehicle counterpart.

Well, I wont lie, I am a Ford fanatic and want to stay with the Ford block... and yes, I am a glutton for punishment as well.
I've owned a bunch of small block fords, including a bronco and currently have a couple 302's in explorers in my driveway and another 302 block i'm building in the garage. No stranger to working on them and parts searching. I believe that is half the fun anyway. (Like I said, I'm a glutton for punishment) I have a slew of Ford mechanics in my family as well. Not claiming to be one myself, as I'm not, but I love working on SBF's!!!!

If that means I have to get creative with unavailable parts in the future, so be it. For now though, I have my answer and will be rebuilding this ONLY to factory specs; no mods at all. It runs currently, just has a rod knock. I'll just be extra careful when prepping the engine for removal knowing most of these parts are no longer available.

I'll be working on getting the engine ready for removal tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted on how it goes.

Thank you!


Oh, really quick question: I currently have the full "MD" OMC manual set that worked for my previous 94 Four Winns engine & outdrive. The engines in 94 and 95 were very similar and should still work for this one.
The new EFI 5.8 engine I believe would use the "HU" OMC manuals based on the model number correct? (I know they are very similar, but would still like to get the new manuals that match exactly with the engine.)
Current model number of 5.8 EFI engine is: 58FAPHUB so I would need the "HU" manuals correct? Transom is 3868175 and drive unit is 3868158.
If I do pick up an "HU" set, would anyone be interested in my old "MD" set?
(Anyone have a digital copy of the HU set?)

Thanks again!

 

[bruceb58]

Yes, you would need the HU set. You can easily sell your MD set on eBay.

 

[buddystarn]

Wow! This is some awesome feedback from everyone!!!! Thank you!!

Well... I guess I didn't know how good I had it with my old carbed 302 in my previous 190 horizon vs the efi system in this new one. I'll take the 350 swap info under advisement, but for now I believe I will proceed in rebuilding the current 351w that is in the boat. I bought the boat knowing there might be a chance I might not be on the water right away next year anyway as I wanted to learn the differences with this specific marine system vs. its vehicle counterpart.

Well, I wont lie, I am a Ford fanatic and want to stay with the Ford block... and yes, I am a glutton for punishment as well.
I've owned a bunch of small block fords, including a bronco and currently have a couple 302's in explorers in my driveway and another 302 block i'm building in the garage. No stranger to working on them and parts searching. I believe that is half the fun anyway. (Like I said, I'm a glutton for punishment) I have a slew of Ford mechanics in my family as well. Not claiming to be one myself, as I'm not, but I love working on SBF's!!!!

If that means I have to get creative with unavailable parts in the future, so be it. For now though, I have my answer and will be rebuilding this ONLY to factory specs; no mods at all. It runs currently, just has a rod knock. I'll just be extra careful when prepping the engine for removal knowing most of these parts are no longer available.

I'll be working on getting the engine ready for removal tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted on how it goes.

Thank you!


Oh, really quick question: I currently have the full "MD" OMC manual set that worked for my previous 94 Four Winns engine & outdrive. The engines in 94 and 95 were very similar and should still work for this one.
The new EFI 5.8 engine I believe would use the "HU" OMC manuals based on the model number correct? (I know they are very similar, but would still like to get the new manuals that match exactly with the engine.)
Current model number of 5.8 EFI engine is: 58FAPHUB so I would need the "HU" manuals correct? Transom is 3868175 and drive unit is 3868158.
If I do pick up an "HU" set, would anyone be interested in my old "MD" set?
(Anyone have a digital copy of the HU set?)

Thanks again!

How did everything turn out? Ford motor enthusiast as well and what is the me and hu set of manuals you're talking about