58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

bundick

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Dec 1, 2008
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15
Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

Boy, you are gonna learn a lot with that old motor.
I bought three of the old Two-hose 35 Hp johnsons off the beach in western AK.
I spent a lot of time with those old buggers.

First thing I'd do if I were to start all that over again is get a veriable speed 1/2" drill and the adaptoer to sockets. Or if you have a good air compressor, use it.
That's to turn that motor over while your doing compression checks and checking the coil out puts. Dont try to start it with that motor though.

First thing to check is the upper main bearing.
That's a constant failure point and one of the symptoms is no fire to the lower plug. Any firing is real intermittent at certain RPM's when that bearing is worn.

If you have a bad upper main bearing, you also may have a bad Bearing seal.
That seal bad will lose your crankcase compression for you and one of the symptoms there is the Fuel pump dont work so good.

You have two sets of points up under the flywheel.
The lower cylinder almost always quits before the top.

The motor runs at a slow idle on the lower cylinder. Most times when an engine wont Idle down, its something wrong with the lower cylinder not firing.

Clean the Carb, make sure your hoses and pump are working......then if you must pull that flywheel to file the points or check for odd problems, Be carefull to check for the Key at the flywheel/crankshaft.
A backfire can shear that key in one hit.

Check for wear at the fiber/cam junction. Make sure both ponts open the same. If not you may have a bad cam lobe or worn fiber on the points.

Experience: Dont mess with those Reeds. They are a life time device if no humanoid ever touches them.

That compression is OK. Any thing above 60Lbs is good. I dont rever remember one with 90Lbs. All my motors worked just fine as long as the compression was equal or close to it.

When you pull start that motor. Dont grip that T-bar so tight. If it backfires on you, it will yank that T-bar out of your hand so hard and fast it will pull the tendons loose at your elbow and biceps. :(Experience talking here!:mad:

That motor was engineered to start with a slow pull. Bump, bump, bump...if its gonna start, you dont have to pull it hard. Just steady.:) That's an easy starting motor.

One of my motors had a bad clutch dog in the lower unit. You wont find that till you have it out on the boat though.
 

jbjennings

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Jul 18, 2007
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3,903
Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

That compression is OK. Any thing above 60Lbs is good. I dont rever remember one with 90Lbs. All my motors worked just fine as long as the compression was equal or close to it.

Bundick,
I found a couple of tidbits in your post that were very helpful to me as well. However, I was suprised at your recommendation on the compression check. I would have trashed a 35hp powerhead with less than 85 or 90 lbs. of compression and would expect at least 110psi. on a decent 35hp motor.
I've never worked on an old 35, however, so I'm just sayin' I'm suprised. Any chance your gauge was off some? ---just asking, I would never argue with experience!:)
Thanks, very informative post for me as well,
JBJ
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

Bundick,
I found a couple of tidbits in your post that were very helpful to me as well. However, I was suprised at your recommendation on the compression check. I would have trashed a 35hp powerhead with less than 85 or 90 lbs. of compression and would expect at least 110psi. on a decent 35hp motor.
I've never worked on an old 35, however, so I'm just sayin' I'm suprised. Any chance your gauge was off some? ---just asking, I would never argue with experience!:)
Thanks, very informative post for me as well,
JBJ

Probably why he also said they idle on one cylinder. Simply not true on a decently running motor. Both should put out equal power. Sounds like he hasn't come across a decent motor yet.
 

tashasdaddy

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51,019
Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

yeah, my 35 old had 135 with the electric start, never did a check with the relief valve.
 

coolguy147

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Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,817
Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

yeah, my 35 old had 135 with the electric start, never did a check with the relief valve.

well i disenaged the relief when i did it. i mean im sure the psi with least reach 100psi when this motor is finished up and running
 

coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

bundick heres a little link for u

ive worked on motor before u know...

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=274791&highlight=1959+evinrude

go to that think thats my old 1959 evinrude 10hp.

ive replaced the ignition parts before. no reason for it to back fire u know. do u mean lean sneeze which most likely wont happpen sicne i have a nice clean carb.

oh and if u read any other posts i havent done anythign with the motor except take the carb off and clean and take the fuel pump off while spraying wd-40 in there to ease up the springs.


i dont see y i cant wait on the igntition system the guy siad he wants to wait on it for now.



oh ya and im going to replace the fuel lines but! what size r the fuel lines if i may ask? i heard that there 1/4" is this right? does auto zone sell them?
 

bundick

Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

Probably why he also said they idle on one cylinder. Simply not true on a decently running motor. Both should put out equal power. Sounds like he hasn't come across a decent motor yet.

Well you guys seem to be in a testy mood this AM.:p
Compression is as compression does. Any motor will start and run with compression down into the low 30's. As long as both cylinders are equal.
We are talking about a Twin cylinder, Two stroke engine for this thread.

(Right now I have five Twins and a Four cylinder in my barn)

How you take the compression makes a difference on the reading you get.
Try it!
Old mechanical guage, newer guage with the screw-in tips, and of course with you pulling and holding, and then with someone else pulling, and the best way....screw the guage in and use the electric drill motor to turn the engine.
OK, Now try this if you think you know a lot about Outboard compression.
Make your guess before you try it though. That will test your technical understanding of how the Twin cylinder, Two stroke outboard works.

Now, you've made your guess, pull the carb and Reeds, and tell me what your compression reading is.

There are so many different ways to check the compression that you'll see different readings on the same engine.
SO...experience tells you that any engine with pretty much identical compression on both cylinders will probably start and run just fine.:)

I never checked a brand new engine. I've never seen it written in a manual or heard a Tech explain how to take the compression on a Twin cylinder Two stroke. I'm going on the experience of the bunch that I've owned or worked on for other guys.

Running on the bottom cylinder is a Fact. Theory is that both must work equally, but somehow in the real world, only the bottom cylinder is working at a slow idle. The top cylinder helps out a little.

You can prove it to yourself just by letting it idle way down to trolling speed. Then Short the top plug or pull the top wire. It's gonna slow down a bit and get rough, but when you do the same with the bottom cylinder the motor will quit.:)

Also, on those old Johnson twins, they had a Mercury switch to kill the Top cylinder if you happen to run over a stup and the motor kicks up.
The reason was to keep the motor from running up in the high rpm's while the water pump is out of the water. Be sure you check for that. when you get to the point of starting the motor.

That 35 hurt my arm back in 1972. I cant remember why it backfired now.:rolleyes:
But all three of them would start with a slow pull when I finally got all the crud n' corrosion out, the bearings replaced and the points clean.

That rotating throttle setting was always a scary thing for me. If you set the throttle too high it would backfire. Too low and it might backfire too.
The Rotating lever just wasnt accurate enough for me. But when I got them all adjusted they all worked.:)

I hope the young guy really dont feel like I was picking on him. He sounded a little miffed at me, and I was only tyring to help out a bit.
 

coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

throttle settings mmm? do u mean the needles on the carb for adjustment. y to lean it will sneeze i guess i may sound like its missing. just means no enoug gas. only reason for me to see it back fire is the timing to be set off which is most likely nvr touched unless needed and never needs to be touched.

again on compression i got an average of 80 pounds in the bottom and 90 pounds in the top. i remember checking the top piston on my old evinrude and its was 70 in the top. i didnt get to check the bottom though:confused: but this was before my decarb.

yes it was a good screw in type from auto zone.


still dont get what u eman by the rotating throttle thing?


lol u forgot its a monday MORNING lol:p
 

tashasdaddy

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51,019
Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

i hate abbreviations.

bundick, I as a moderator, i suggest you do a little more investigation into this praticular motor. the throttle only turns to a start postion, due to a neutral lock out lever.

"Running on the bottom cylinder is a Fact. Theory is that both must work equally, but somehow in the real world, only the bottom cylinder is working at a slow idle. The top cylinder helps out a little." complete an total bunk.
 

coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

i hate abbreviations.

bundick, I as a moderator, i suggest you do a little more investigation into this praticular motor. the throttle only turns to a start postion, due to a neutral lock out lever.

"Running on the bottom cylinder is a Fact. Theory is that both must work equally, but somehow in the real world, only the bottom cylinder is working at a slow idle. The top cylinder helps out a little." complete an total bunk.

yes the throttle to start position is a fact. but what happened with bundick? he do something wrong?
 

tx1961whaler

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May 31, 2008
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5,197
Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

yes the throttle to start position is a fact. but what happened with bundick? he do something wrong?

What he did wrong is saying something was a fact which is not true. That's a bad thing to do when people are trying to fix something and may believe what's said. For instance, if I told you it was a FACT that you could run your 1970 outboard on a gas/oil mix of 100:1 forever with no damage, that would be a wrong thing to do. OPINIONS should be expressed in a way that it's obvious that it's an opinion. Like "A decarb may help your compression" or "sounds like you need to rebuild the carb"
 

coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

What he did wrong is saying something was a fact which is not true. That's a bad thing to do when people are trying to fix something and may believe what's said. For instance, if I told you it was a FACT that you could run your 1970 outboard on a gas/oil mix of 100:1 forever with no damage, that would be a wrong thing to do. OPINIONS should be expressed in a way that it's obvious that it's an opinion. Like "A decarb may help your compression" or "sounds like you need to rebuild the carb"

urggg never mind but anyways i was talking about the old vinatge motors have a fast start feature which is u advance the throttle until it stops and start. it makes starting easier and better. thats a fact... i didnt write my post correctly sorry :(
 

coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

well i got the impeller today and man that thing is kind of big relatively to my little 10hp. well i took out the 6 bolts on the bottom but this thing just will not budge. i believe there is a 9/16 bolt up on hte top right above the exahust outlet. but only way to get to it is take the silencer cover off the bottom half. i cant do that though... they have philips head screws in there. when even i try to do something the thing just keeps striping or something.


any ides in getting the screws out. i got a impact driver in which im going to use but how do u use it? and once those screws r out im going to put in new flat heas screws in there:rolleyes:
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

there are 3 bolts on each side. did you release the shift linkage on the side of the leg? also the drive shaft splines could be rusted into the crankshaft.
 

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coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

yup disonncected the 3 bolts on eachs die and the shift rod. i believ there is one more bolt up there but u have to take apart the silencing cover on the lower unit right?
 

tmcalavy

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

CG's outboard has the super silencer quiet housing...so yes, you must remove the back half of the housing and those phillips head bolts to get to the last bolt holding the LU onto the leg. Put some penetrating oil on each one and let it soak overnight. Fit the bit on your impact wrench into the head of the bolt and give it a sharp rap/hit with a hammer. Make sure you have the leg secure against something or it will move with each blow and reduce the impact of the driver.
 

coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

ya i put some wd-40 on there yesterday gonna let it sit another night since its raining here in florida but the parts came in today. i have marevel mystery oil in the old old metal can
 

coolguy147

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Re: 58 or 59 johnson 35hp super seahorse

well i just replaced the impeller today but i cant seem to get the lower unit back on any advice?
 
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