60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

[zantz]

I bought a used pontoon boat with a 1995 60hp Evinrude (model# E60TLEOC 3 cylinder/VRO) and it had trouble idling the first time I took it out. Ran great above wake speed but idled rough. After the second time out, and still the same problem, I checked the timing and plugs, both were OK. I played a little with the idle screws on the 3 carbs but no change, so I set them back the way they were (I checked exactly how many turns from full in).<br /> <br />The Internet is a wonderful place for information, so I did some research. I must have read through 50 different topics.<br /><br />I went out and bought the service manual (not the Clymer) and started checking:<br />1. Timing<br />2. Fuel restriction<br />3. Spark<br />4. VRO pump<br />6. Compression (don't know why I didn't check it first)<br /><br />Compression readings from Cylinders 1-2-3<br />1. 115<br />2. 100<br />3. 90<br /><br />#3 runs the VRO pump. Low compression on that one, not a good sign. Back to the Forums.<br /><br />After some more research I pulled the head (with crossed fingers), nope, not a blown gasket, Darn.<br /><br />I'm wondering now, how deep is too deep for a re-bore. #3 looks pretty bad, #2 not as bad as 3, #1 is starting to score. I took some pictures (because they're worth a thousand words) for those who want to see.<br /> http://zantz.home.comcast.net/boat <br /><br />Also, The guy I bought the boat from said he bought the motor new in 2000. I noticed the cylinders still had honing marks (see pictures) is that normal? <br /><br />I've called around and if I have some one do the work I'm looking at $2500 to $3000 bucks. If I take the head to a machine shop and do the work myself (I have that step-by-step service manual) I'm looking at a lot less money.<br /><br />Is it worth it? Should I just get a rebuilt powerhead? Should I junk the motor?<br /><br />I love to fish & my son loves to ski, but we're done for the season.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

Welcome to the forum!!<br /><br />Very nice job on the pics!<br /><br />Something to keep in mind -- when looking at scoring its sometimes deceiving because as a "groove" is made it not only digs into the metal but it pushes it up beside the groove. This can sometimes make the groove or score seem worse than it is. <br /><br />Thats why, in most cases, we let the machine shop determine what and how far to bore. They will make a first pass cut or use a rigid hone to get a better idea of what the actual damage is. Once they measure it then we can go from there. <br /><br />There are oversize pistons available up to .040 so we have a lot of room. Those blocks can actually be off-set bored to pick up concentrated damage. Many times the worst is right by the exhaust port. <br /><br />2500-3000 seems a bit high for a rebuild given the block is at standard bore now, its borable and the rods & crank are good. 3000 almost sounds like a replacement.<br /><br />Those motors are one of the simplest and most straight forward in the line. If you have the machine work done you can most certianly rebuild it yourself if your so inclined.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[voodoo]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

If you can feel it it's bad enough to need a bore.<br />It did all 3 meaning loss of lube or overheat.<br />Find out why it smoked.<br />Mix your gas, rebuild the waterpump, check the overheat warning system and use it for the rest of the season.<br />Then rebuild it yourself for $1000

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

i would definately do it myself.<br />work slow and organized with tearing down.<br />save all the bolts and nuts, clean them and if good put them in ziplock bags and write on the bags what they are for.<br />take plenty of pics with every step.<br />write down the sequence of teardown.<br />make plenty of notes.<br />clean your block before sending to the machine shop.<br />clean it very good after the machine shop.<br />start rebuilding.<br />oh first find the couse of all you problems <br /><br />good luck and have a lot of fun.<br />a 3 cylinder you can rebuild if you dont break things for les then 1000 dollars.<br />will save you at least 1500 from a mechanic.<br /><br /><br />reeldutch

 

[rdav13]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

I just repalced my 60 hp powerhead with a reman from Iboats. It came from a very reputable supplier, with a 15 month warranty. Complete job, powerhead,<br />waterpump kit, carb kits, thermostat new VRO pump came to just over $1600.00. This compared to a $3500.00 price from the local wrench.<br />I'm not saying this is what you should do but it does give you something to compare.

 

[G DANE]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

Check your oil tank for water ?

 

[Pony]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

I agree that $2,500 - $3,000 seems very high. I was quoted $1,700 for my 1971 60hp to be rebuilt. If you can't get it done, i would rebuilt it yourself. Thats what i plan to do with mine, and i've never done anything like it before. At least then you'll know the engine inside and out. just my 2 cents

 

[DJ]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

That iboats deal that rad13 speaks of sounds like a heck of a deal. About 1/2 of having someone do it for you.<br /><br />It's not that I wouldn't trust myself, however it is nice to have the warranty.<br /><br />You'll have plenty to do with the powerhead swap, water pump, carbs, etc.<br /><br />Make it a father/son project. He'll have a WHOLE LOT more respect for it after seeing what makes it tick.<br /><br />Oops, "tick" is a bad choice of words for engines. How about, "run".

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

Too funny DJ!!

 

[zantz]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

Thanks to all!<br />I do plan on making it a father/son project. My dad did it with me on a lawnmower engine and I was hooked, a tinker person for life.<br /><br />I did see on iboats a powerhead will run $1300 plus core, that will save the hassle of taking it to a machine shop to find out if they're too deep or not. A 15 month warranty sounds like a good deal.<br /><br />I'm still curious about the honing marks, is that normal for an engine that's been used for 3 seasons?<br /><br />I tested the VRO with my air compressor set at 5 psi, 8 psi, 10 psi, 12 psi, and 15 psi, the book says check with 15 psi, it pumped fine down to 8 psi, at 5 psi it would still pump gas but not pull the oil. I checked the oil warning and thought it was bad until I found a post that says it does not activate at RPM's less that a 1000. Sure enough they were right. After I got it above a 1000 RPM's, oil disconnected and running pre-mix, the alarm sounded, drove the dogs in my neighborhood nuts. I believe the carbs must have leaned out thus starting the score process and it was a chain reaction from there, #3 looses compression, VRO pumps less oil, score gets worse. I checked the water pump and water path, those were good. I'm blaming it on the carbs.<br /><br />I'm glad you guys are here, knowledge is half the battle for solving any problem. Thanks again, and I'll get started. Can I just pull the powerhead and components and move that into my garage, or do I have to take off the whole motor from the boat?

 

[DJ]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

It's easier to work on the engine if it is bolted to something. I made a cheapo stand out of 2 X 4's, on casters, so I can move it around easy.<br /><br />You are right about the carbs being the culprit for the failure.<br /><br />I'm impressed with your diagnostic abilities. The powerhead swap will be a snap for you.

 

[zantz]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

Thanks DJ, I'm a computer tech and love to troubleshoot things. I like your idea of the stand. I had made one for my old motor (1961 Seaking) so I'll beef it up to handle this motor.<br /><br />Question to the site admins.<br /><br />During this project should I keep posting to this thread or start a new topic? Example, during the rebuild I have a question about carbs or pistons that I can't find the answer to in another topic.<br /><br />Also, is posting my web site address with the pictures relating to my question(s) OK?

 

[DJ]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

The admins prefer you keep posting to the thread you started. That way people can see the whole story. It makes it very intertesting. It's also best to keep your questions here.<br /><br />You can see parts of the stand I made at the link below. It was the last project boat I did.<br /><br /> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/djohns19/djohns19/

 

[zantz]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

I was reading through the service manual and got to the part about putting the rod caps back on. It says to use a "Rod Cap Aligning tool" before torquing the rod caps down. Is this tool completly necessary? Are the rod caps that difficult to align? Is there another way around this without having to hunt down this tool?<br /><br />Thanks DJ for the pics of the motor stand. I beefed up my stand and I plan to put my motor on it this weekend. Clever mounting the control box on the side.

 

[voodoo]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

You can use a scratch awl. <br />Run it down the sides of the rod cap, if you can feel a ridge when it goes over the mating surfaces it is not right.<br />Do not mix up the caps, use a marker to identify them.

 

[RRRKKK]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

Zantz contact me by my e-mail may have some information for you

 

[G DANE]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

These rods were machined, and then broken into two. Every rod cap has to go on the rod where it belongs. There is a mark on one side to let you make sure you didnt turn the cap. If they were fittet wrong you can make a line rollers have to cross at high speed and it will damage them. I usually align caps as good as I can by the grinded 4 edges. Then check and check along when I apply torque. At last try with the lead tip of a pencil if there is external edge showing misalighment. If you accidently got caps mixed, you will usually be able to tell which belongs where by trial and error and feeling.

 

[zantz]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

Ron K, Only admins can see a e-mail address in the profile. mine is zantz@comcast.net<br /><br />Voodoo & G Dane, I was hoping I could use that method. I'll just have to be extra careful. I do plan on marking the caps. Thanks for the info.<br /><br />Nobody has replied on my "honing marks" question. See first part of this post.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

The honing marks are normal and a good thing.<br /><br />Its bad when they're under a bunch of aluminum that should be on a piston......

 

[zantz]

Re: 60hp Evinrude scored cylinder - How deep is TOO deep?

I've got the motor torn down. The pistons look pretty bad.<br /><br />I've put the picturs on my web site<br /> http://zantz.home.comcast.net/boat <br /><br />Now I just need to order the parts, get a new powerhead or re-bore this one and put it back together.<br /><br />I'll keep you posted.