68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

[LonLB]

I have a few questions about a 68 55 hp Johnson outboard. I've been searching for answers on this board but haven't found anything yet.

First are all late 60's 55hp Johnson's electric shift?
How do I identify it as electric shift or not?

How does the electric shift work? Very simplified version is fine. The reason I ask is because something that is electric shift would be beneficial because I would like to use this as a TILLER engine.

If a simple switch is possible I could set up the "shifter" towards the end of the tiller handle, or even somewhere in the boat that is convenient.

Being a 3cylinder motor, would a larger power head swap on/in? This isn't something I would do right away but a couple years down the road, it would be nice to convert it to a 70 or 75 HP.

This is something I'm looking to buy. I can work on it throughout winter and try and getting it running, but I CAN'T spend more money, and the price is right for this motor.
With that said, any other insight would be appreciated as well.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

1 - The "Hydro Electric Shift" existed from 1968 to 1972. This included the 55hp and higher hp models.

2 - How deos the shift work? This is taken from my database.
(Hydro Electric Shift System Explained)
(J. Reeves)

The shifting setup of the lower unit is what's called a "Hydro Electric Shift", which is quite complex consisting of voltage being applied to solenoids in the lower unit which in turn change oil passages via a oil pump that supplies various pressure on a spring loaded shifter dog. The wires leading to the lower unit (at the powerhead) are "Green" and "Blue". The engine must be running or cranking over in order to shift out of forward gear.

You CAN NOT use HI VIS lube in that lower unit. You MUST USE what OMC calls "Premium Blend" lube, commonly called "Type C". (A thinner lube)

Note: The engine must be running OR have the driveshaft turning by some other means in order for the engine to shift.

In neutral, you need 12v to the "Green" wire.
In reverse, you need 12v to both wires, the "Green" one and the "Blue" one.
In forward, there should be no voltage to either wire. (The spring loaded shifter dog forces the unit into forward gear)

To check the lower unit for proper shifting to make sure you have no trouble there, remove the spark plugs to avoid problems and to allow a higher cranking speed.

This next step eliminates the actual shift switch in case problems may exist there.... Disconnect the blue & green wires at the knife connectors (the rubber insulated boots) leading to the lower unit at the powerhead, then using jumpers, take voltage direct from the starter solenoid to apply voltage to the "Green" wire for neutral, then both wires 'Green" & "Blue" for reverse (Remember the engine must be cranking over in order to shift).
With no voltage applied, the unit should be in forward. No need for a ground jumper... the lower unit's already grounded. You may crank the engine with the key switch or by energizing the starter solenoid with a jumper wire.

3 - No such thing as a simple shift switch, a dangerous but functional switch is described as follows.
(Toggle Shift Switch Setup For The Hydro Electric Shift Unit)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE (Disclaimer) - The following toggle setup will suffice BUT it is extremely dangerous. Should you use it, you are agreeing to use it at your own risk with myself disavowng any responsibility for its design or use.

Due to the unavailability of the "Push Button" (Evinrude) or "Toggle Type" (Johnson) shift switch that is required for the "Hydro Electric Shift" type lower units that existed between 1968 and 1972, many boaters have asked how they could rig up a toggle switch to perform this shifting function. There may be much better solutions but the following is what I have come up with.

One must keep in mind that wiring a toggle switch in such a manner allows one to accidently shift from forward to reverse at full throttle. This could and probably has resulted in injuries to boaters, not to mention the mechanical damage. Should this or any other problems arise/occur, I am in no way to be held responsible for the toggle switch to shift switch replacement mentioned here.

For the above reason, I strongly suggest that the toggle switch have a hinged hard case cover installed over it so that the toggle can never be thrown/toggled accidentally.

Now, with a single pole double throw toggle switch installed so the "Green" wire connection is facing up or away from you, make the following connections to the terminals on the back of the toggle switch.

......O <--- Green Wire

......O <--- 12 volt Supply

......O <--- Blue Wire

Now, between the Green wire and Blue wire terminal on the toggle switch, connect a diode capable of handling 12 volts (available at Radio Shack etc). Be sure to install the diode so that the voltage will travel from the Blue wire connection to the Green wire connection only...... and not vice versa!

Now, if you have installed the switch as above, with the toggle pulled all the way back (towards yourself), contact will be made between the 12v supply and the Green connection. This puts the unit in Neutral. The diode prevents any voltage from gaining access to the Blue connection.

Pushing the toggle lever to the middle position results in no voltage being supplied to either wire. This results in the spring loaded clutch shifter dog in the lower unit throwing the unit into forward gear.

Pushing the toggle switch lever all the way to the front position will have the center 12 volt supply connected to the Blue wire connection, and due to the diode, that 12 volt supply will also be supplied to the Green wire. This results in having the unit in reverse gear.

4 - Interchange? Possible, depends on many variables.

 

[LonLB]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

Thank You! for the response.

I've tried to come up with any results about swapping from 55hp to 70 hp with no luck.....Again this isn't something I'm terribly concerned with but it does interest me.


Overall, am I going to be looking at problems finding parts for that motor?


Have folks ever swapped a standard shift lower unit onto one of these motors?
Does using the wrong lower unit lube actually damage the lower unit, or just prevent the solenoids from operating properly?



Being old doesn't really bother me. My father had a 68 Johnson 20hp tiller when I was growing up and it ran flawlessly, and required little if any maintenance.

 

[F_R]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

Forget the idea about making it a bigger motor. Too many differences

Some parts are no longer made and are extremely expensive if you do find them. Depends on what you need.

No you can't put a standard shift lower unit on it. There is no shift linkage.

If you are looking for something to not spend any money on, run, don't walk, away. They are great motors for their day, but this is today and age, wear, abuse, neglect, and whatever have taken their toll on most of them. Re-read the comment about expensive parts.

 

[LonLB]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

After more searching turns out you can convert the lower end to manual shift. It does require machine work but sounds as though it is minor. Hassle factor is high requiring a tear down, but cost isn't that bad.

The 55, 65, 70, and 75's are very similar. The 65's have a third intake port, otherwise hardparts are the same as on the 55. (timing may vary)

The 75's use the same block as the 55, with carb and heads being different and different ports. Port work can be done to the 55 to convert the block to 75 hp.

The power heads should interchange.


The only part that worries me is the original 68 ignition.....


I'm going to either buy it, or a 73 65hp that I'm looking at.

 

[F_R]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

What have you been reading???

 

[LonLB]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

A bunch of info on these motors on scream and fly.
Even port template to port the 55 to 75 HP block specs.

 

[watergecko]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

umm ya, listen to f_r advice. switchn things around is not a good idea. all fine and dandy if its for s&giggles if money/time is not an object, but in reality go buy the motor u want and not mess with it.! seriously!

 

[LonLB]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

Well looks like I made a deal on a 65hp with mechanical shift, so I won't have to worry about the points ignition, or the electro/hydraulic shift lower unit.


Thanks for the advice.....

Anything to add about the 65hp? It is a 73'. It has mechanical shift, and from what I gather a better, updated ignition. Sound right?

 

[F_R]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

Sounds right. You made the right choice.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

Well looks like I made a deal on a 65hp with mechanical shift, so I won't have to worry about the points ignition, or the electro/hydraulic shift lower unit.


Thanks for the advice.....

Anything to add about the 65hp? It is a 73'. It has mechanical shift, and from what I gather a better, updated ignition. Sound right?

The '73 65hp shares the magneto CD ignition with its brother, the '72 65hp. The engines are essentially identical, with the exception of the hydro-electric shift in the '72 model and the tilt tube (steering) in the '73. Your '73 is hydro-mechanical shift.

Compared to the older, battery CD igntion in the 55hp triple, the magneto CD ignition is much better, IMO. I'm not afraid of hydro-electric shift systems, but I won't touch a motor with battery CD ignition.

Take a look at your motor to see if any of the ignition parts have been replaced. If you have a powerpack with a metal exterior, its the original and may have to be replaced some time soon. If its black, its probably a CDI or Sierra replacement. If the timer base is metal with exposed sensors, once again, its probably the original, while if its blue plastic and is a sealed unit, its most likely CDI or Sierra. The same goes for the stator - a metal frame/ring will be an original part, while a white plastic material with the coils on that, suggests a CDI or Sierra part.

What I found with my '72 J65, is that I had to have a few components replaced right after I bought it. Most of them were ones that you would pretty much do to any motor that had not been run in a while. After some run time, I ended up rebuilding the ignition, with the exception of the stator - new ignition coils, new powerpack & new timer base. My original stator is still in the motor and is fine.

If you end up rebuilding your ignition, I recommend the aftermarket parts. BRP still sells them, but they are stupidly expensive and rumour has it that they are rebranded CDI parts anyway. Buying the aftermarket parts from iboats or another web retailer, will save you a great deal of money.

Bear in mind, also, that while the charge system shares the stator with the ignition system, it is separate. There is a rectifier in it, which converts the 300VAC from the stator, to 12VDC to charge the battery. Its pretty common for the rectifier to be bad in these old motors, so you may want to check yours.



???

 

[LonLB]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

What is the difference between the hydro-mechanical shift in the 73, and any kind of mechanical shift in newer motors?



FWIW the engine and controls are going to be basically free. I'm trading a couple power tools for it that I just don't use.....So, if I do need to replace some ignition parts, I'll be fine with that. Heck for that matter, a complete rebuild, doing it myself except machine work, and I'm still going to have a nice motor for a low price.

Once I have it up and running well, the only other thing I would want to do is change to the power reeds. That is, if they do smooth out idle, and make starting easier. Seems like they could only be a good thing.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: 68 55hp question-ID and use of Electric shift.

Both hydro-electric and hydro-mechanical shift systems use the gear oil as a hydraulic fluid, which is used to move a piston. The piston overcomes spring pressure and moves the clutch dog, which will engage either the forward gear of the reverse gear, when not in neutral. Both using a valve assembly to direct the hydraulic pressure, as needed. In the hydro-electric system, electical solenoids move poppet valves, while in the hydro-mechanical system, a shift rod assembly moves a valve assembly.

A purely mechanical system is just that - purely mechanical. The clutch dog is moved by mechanical linkage, only.



???