$736 for 2007 Evinrude Etec Injectors, $250 for 2008 Evinrude Etec Injectors!

[golfmonke]

Well, I need injectors for my 2007 Evinrude Etec 150 and i'm being quoted astronomical prices on the injectors.

6 x $736 ($736) for a grand total of $4416 for 2007 injectors (5007179 and 5007180). Oh, and $30 EACH for shipping! LOL

While somebody with a 2008 would be paying 6 x $250 for a total of $1500

The highest i've been quoted is $765 by dealers, $65 over MSRP, can you believe that, that's a slap in the face.

It seems Evinrude changed the design of their Etec Injectors in 2008, and now wants to charge their 2007 customers for their design mistake.

This is highway robbery, plain and simple.

How exactly does Evinrude have the nerve to charge their 2007 customers who have inferior injectors 3x the price to cover their design problem?

Not only am I done fishing, as I can't afford and even if I could wouldn't be paying $3000 more than 2008 Etec owners, but now I also have an engine with reduced re-sale value.

I contacted Evinrude today to give them a chance to do the right thing and offer these parts at reasonable prices and I was told to go pound sand.

Does anybody know where I can find these injectors at cheaper prices?

 

[golfmonke]

The injectors are "dead", all of them over 4ohms, 3 of them are weak on startup and get progressively weaker up to about the 25 minute mark, and then turning them off one by one in the software has almost no effect on the engine, and the engine dies shortly after.

2 are "completely dead" after 25 minutes, 1 pretty weak, and the other 3 are also about 4 ohms and I expect them to go anytime. I've tested new fuel, both fuel pumps, no air in the fuel, swapped coils, spark plugs were new this year, fuel leak down test, injector leak down tests, and then swapped bad injectors with the "good" injector's into their cylinders to test. The "good" injectors work the same in the bad injector cylinder, and the bad injectors are still bad in the "good" injector cylinders. The ignition voltage is fine, timing light tested the ignition, engine temps are fine ~153 degrees, port and starboard, thermostats open fine when externally tested as well. Oh, and compression is an even 120 on 5 cylinders, and 115 on one of the "good" injector cylinders, so all within spec. I've never run anything but Ethanol free through my engine, I have the upgraded engine mount fuel filter (can style) , as well as an off engine fuel filter. I have always run XD100 oil through my engine. Oh, and no recent codes in the software reported.

The injectors are spotless, i've pulled the 2 "completely dead" injectors apart, not a spec of dirt, ran them through my ultrasonic while actuating them for several hours, re-assembled them with new o-rings, no change, same 25 minute degredation of the injectors and then engine dies.

So while I only need 3 at the moment, according to the service manual anything over 3 ohms should be replaced, and my guess is the other 3 will reach the end of their life soon as well, and I don't want them taking out my cylinders when they do go.

These injectors seemed to have just reached the end of their life, their operating environment and fuel supply is impeccable and like I said, when I pulled them apart they were spotless.

 

[Crosbyman]

why not check this out with the folks on the ETEC user board . I have been reading up on ETEC issues and bugs s since my 2005 purchase and I have never heard of this kind of issue... mind you, I am no mechanic but I think something else is wrong here ??? my 2005 75hp probably uses the same injectors and I have had no issues.
Barnacle Bill's Marine Supply (etecownersgroup.com)
have you considered sending them in to injector shops like Injector Man or this new one
Etec and Ficht injector rebuild - Barnacle Bill's Marine Supply (etecownersgroup.com)

 

[golfmonke]

why not check this out with the folks on the ETEC user board . I have been reading up on ETEC issues and bugs s since my 2005 purchase and I have never heard of this kind of issue... mind you, I am no mechanic but I think something else is wrong here ??? my 2005 75hp probably uses the same injectors and I have had no issues.
Barnacle Bill's Marine Supply (etecownersgroup.com)
have you considered sending them in to injector shops like Injector Man or this new one
Etec and Ficht injector rebuild - Barnacle Bill's Marine Supply (etecownersgroup.com)

I've been over there... I don't disagree with you, the plan was to get 2 injectors and continue to monitor and test at idle as well as on the water at different RPM's. I've run every electrical test in the book, everything checks out, at least at idle in my 100 gallon tank.

Several dealers there suggested that I off this 3x the cost monster on to somebody else

Sending them to injectorman was my plan once I got 2 new ones, actually was going to experiment with different cleaning solutions and also driving them at higher pressure while actuating them in ultrasonic. He really says he can only help if the injectors are really dirty, i've taken mine apart and not a spec of dirt. But was still going to send at least 1 and see if he has some magic.

 

[Crosbyman]

your resistance numbers do seem a bit high but assuming crud and dirt are not the issue, those injector designs are to some extent simple in construction (basically electromagnets pushing the fuel in the cyl) . The fact that all injectors became suspect at/around the same time isn't necessarily a design issue since thousands of them seem to work fine after 2-3000 hrs has reported by other users (although you did not post usage hours on your 2007 . )

that said have you looked into the possibility of an electrical issue aka EMM or "constant 55v" supplying the injectors with strong pulses to work properly ? some capacitors have been reported bad and that may affect things (any alarm codes on the EMM ??) what does the log show

wild one... injectors are cooled by the fuel/pressure any chance fuel pressure is weak (VST filter clog) .

 

[golfmonke]

I don't know that the injectors became suspect at the same time, could have been gradual over time. Not claiming any defect issue in regards to the high prices, but that's separate from getting it running. My hours are under 2K, but I have been putting 200+ per year for the last 4 years and 240hrs last year, which is relatively high, but not sky high. I do do a lot of idling though.

Yes, I ran the capacitor test as well, tested fine, is it failing at some other time I don't know. There are no recent codes in the software.(in the last several hundred hours) I also ran every electrical check I could find in the book, everything is checking out, but I guess wires/contacts could be affected while on the water. I was hoping to compare the logs while running when I got 2 new injectors, to see if something is changing at runtime on the water at different RPM'S.

At least while in the test tank, i've swapped injectors between cylinders, so that kind of takes out anything related to specific cylinders like compression and spark. At least during test, could still be a cause.

The fuel pressure is within spec during tests, and at the high end of spec, and passed the leak down test. Was going to run with the gauge hooked up while on the water at different RPM's once I get 2 new injectors.

 

[Crosbyman]

It almost seems like the injectors gradually die off one variable being engine heat . I do not want to send you on a wild goose chase but have you check injector temperatures with a IR gun when they fail .

heat can do strange things as components expand . Did you ask the experts for comments on the ETEC board ??

Not long ago one fellow had weird issues with his ETEC and it turns out that applying a simple (small) condenser across the 55V allowed noise transients to dissipate instead of messing the brains

 

[golfmonke]

I've got a gun on the way , also to verify engine and EMM temps. No, this is good stuff, I will start checking the voltages to the injectors with a multimeter, if necessary I will hook up an oscilloscope like I did to build my "injector cleaner". Never got a chance to try different solutions and higher pressure on cheap out of spec injectors, but that was for a product idea and not this problem. Either way, gonna send 1 to Injectorman once I get some new ones.

I don't know what the temps of the injectors should be, but guess i'm just looking for something out of the ordinary or some that are different or changes as they they get weaker. They're not all that strong to begin with, but definitely get a lot weaker. Keep em comin, I've been learning a little at a time on the servicing/troubleshooting, learned a whole lot this time.

The experts were let's say, less than helpful, and understandably so, but sometimes you gotta speak out.

 

[Crosbyman]

just fyi... read long story on flaky voltages & noise spikes

Etec 90 misfires, but not while using powertrim - Barnacle Bill's Marine Supply (etecownersgroup.com)

see posts #80 - #81 and post #89 and 90 ...

nothing like a happy ending they say

 

[golfmonke]

Interesting, the only doubt I have is that the problem didn't follow the "good" injector when I put it on the bad injector cylinder.

Good to have in the bag of tricks though, if it turns out not to be the case.

Unless the problem wasn't enough to immediately cause an operating problem on the good injector, but sufficient to damage them, or occuring at different times. Good god, I think i'm gonna just get an older 2 stroke and a gas mask.

 

[Crosbyman]

I hope you resolve the issue at a fair price . keep us posted on the outcome. btw 2 strokes aren't bad if you oil them on xd-100 $$$$$

 

[golfmonke]

LOL, that's true, but my usage fees, let's just say... don't end up being a drain on my wallet. Will let you know, have some capacitors on the way, I realize there are other ways I could test, but would rather limit any more damage if this is the case.

 

[Crosbyman]

just fyi I was re reading that old post and the end solution ended up being an extra cap....on the B+ and grd engine side not the 55V buss

 

[golfmonke]

Oh, I missed that crucial point. Let me rethink my plan.

[thinking slowly....]

Could be the 55V cap, i've never understood how the book test would completely verify the 55V cap, that thread seems to have verified my thinking. See how the test could tell you if it's definitely bad. But since I purchased some 63V cap's should be able to test bothcircuit's, and at least see if the problem lessens when applied to the 55V, as I don't have the full 3xK capacitance (or whatever it is, have to look at the cap again), actually I might if put them in parallel.

I could put some extra load on the B+ as well, but would rather just wait a few days for capacitors to get here, just in case.

 

[Crosbyman]

not all bad some 55v caps have gone bad anyway. hope it turns out ok if not you tried

 

[golfmonke]

So after I test the B+, if that doesn't fix it, wouldn't the 55V be the next to take a look at?

 

[golfmonke]

Well, no dice with a 4700uf capacitor on the B+

I guess I could try 9400, any suggestions?

 

[golfmonke]

Well, while running the 55V cap test on the multimeter, the ohms continue to climb, I stood there about 24hours last time waiting for it to reach near infinity, at some point I gave up.

So I got a cheap capacitance meter, what's interesting is when I hook it up it reads 46900, but after about 10 minutes it was down to 45,500. It still continues to climb on the multimeter however. The rating on the can is 50000uf btw, but the 4700's are reading low as well..

I hooked up one of these 4700uf capacitors, and the value held steady for 10 minutes. So maybe it is the 55V cap. You seemed to think it might be a bad idea to add extra cap's the 55V cap, was that because they weren't big enough and could "explode"? Do you see any harm in trying this test with several of the 4700uf's in parallel hooked up in parallel with the 55V cap?

 

[Crosbyman]

at this point I think (JMHO) you should try to have your injectors tested out...

btw ohm meters have very small batteries and testing such a 55v big cap would draw on the the meter battery and take time to reach a 100 % charge to give you an infinity reading (stoppage of current flow) .

capacitors don't "explode" they just charge up .... "explosions"... come when the voltage tolerance level is exceed x % over it's handling limit.

the purpose of the cap addition is to short out noise spikes /transients but you have not gotten good results ... saddly injectors are becoming the mains suspects at this point

 

[golfmonke]

Ya, but why did the 55V cap go from 46,900 to 45,500 when I put it on the capacitance meter, and the 4700uf cap's stayed level for the same 10 minute interval. The meter reads 46,900 immediately, and goes down from there. The mulitmeter counts up, but at some point goes to 0L I just noticed, not sure if it's the multimeter giving up on the test, but still reads 0 for some time after I turn it off and turn it back on. Eventually I get readings again.

I put about 18,000uf in parallel with the 55V cap just now, no difference, don't know if that's enough if the 55V cap is totally crapping out at some point, since it's a 50000uf cap.

Injectors tested out? You mean get new ones and try them?