74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

[someone11]

I replaced the water pump and water pump housing in an old 74 15hp johnson. I am 99% sure i have the vanes going the right way, I hooked the motor up to some muffs and its not pumping water still. Im kinda lost as to what to do next. Im assuming something is probably plugged up but I dont know. Some help here would be nice. Thanks...

 

[2manband]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

Try it in a trash can full of water. The muffs don't always create enough pressure for the impeller to prime and start pumping.

The other issue might be that the outlet grommet didn't align properly with the water tube when reinstalling the L.U.

Also - did the 1974 15's have a telltale (pee hole)? I know that my 1975 9.9 does not, and those motors are very similar. On mine, it will start spraying water from the blubber hole in the back after ~30 seconds of running when the thermostat opens up.

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

No there is no "tell tale" pee hole. Theres one single hole that kinda "spits" water I think. From what I remember there is no steady stream on it. But this motor hasnt been ran for like 15 years. Last time I personally remember it running when I was about 7 years old haha. Im 22 now so yeah... Ill try running it in a bucket and see what happens.

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

Well I ran it in a bucket and it squirts water really good, crazy how much of a difference that makes. Now I gotta get it running good, think it needs a carb rebuild. I took it apart and cleaned it once but I noticed the needle had a ring around the tip from sitting, I think that might be the problem.

 

[Rick.]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158086
Here is some good reading for you to help get her running right. Best of luck. Rick.

 

[kbait]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

On that motor, start it from cold (not run in more than an hour) in the barrel. If you get lots of discharge water out that hole immediately upon cold-starting, your thermostat is stuck open and needs attention (should take 30 seconds or so as stated ^). Outboards always perform much better w/properly operating thermostats. Good luck!

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

You know I never thought of that, works similar to a car. A car will run better with a properly working thermostat. It was spitting water as soon as it started. The problem is it will fire over and rev up, but wont stay running even at like half throttle. Ill do some research but if I can get a quick answer here I will...where is the thermostat on these? This is my first time messing around with water circulation on outboards, im usually dealing with spark or fuel issue.

Think I found it in a diagram, looks to be on the lower end of the head below the spark plug, sound correct? Ill pull it out and take a look, maybe replace it to be safe. Motor is going to be used as a kicker on a big lake boat, also want to have it as a back up in case the big motor fails.

 

[Rick.]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

That's pretty much the location. My experience is you will need to pull the latch to get the stat cover off. Here is another site which will show you all the parts break downs and approx. locations and putting it back together sequence. Rick.

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

So stupid question, I just went out and looked at the motor, im assuming I have to pull the head to get to the thermostat?

 

[Rick.]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

You have to pull the water cover which is bolted to the head. Here is a parts break down of your engine to help clarify things for you. Rick.
http://epc.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E&s1=f4f288fb-40d1-4e1d-ba3e-cc7af23cc8a9

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

You have to pull the water cover which is bolted to the head. Here is a parts break down of your engine to help clarify things for you. Rick.
http://epc.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E&s1=f4f288fb-40d1-4e1d-ba3e-cc7af23cc8a9

Thanks! Thats helps a lot. I also read some more on leroy's ramblings. Sounds like its a bit of a pain to get the water cover off or the latch for the motor cover. Luckily I have small hands so hopefully it isnt too bad. I also noticed the mice had gotten to one of the coil wires. They chewed the insulation off but none of the wires are cut. Could this have anything to do with keeping it running?

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

If you have exposed wires, they could be arcing which would make the motor not run properly. Tape them up and see if it helps. For the record, when I had a '71 18hp Evinrude I removed the t-stat for maximum cooling. You really only need the stat if your running in cold water say early spring, late fall. It worked for me.......

 

[2manband]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

I think you're going to have to remove the latch - small hands or not. It interferes with the bottom bolt of the water cover. It's a little fidgety, but you'll get it.

If you're going to pull the water cover off to get at the thermostat, I'd recommend spending a few more bucks to get a water cover gasket too. If it's 35 years old, chances are it won't remove and reinstall without breaking somewhere, and you'll get a water leak.

Also, you may find that the thermostat has been removed completely by a previous owner if the old thermostat failed. Having no thermostat means the motor ciruculates water "wide open" at all times. While not ideal, it's certainly better than having a thermostat that's stuck shut (no water circulation)

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

I think you're going to have to remove the latch - small hands or not. It interferes with the bottom bolt of the water cover. It's a little fidgety, but you'll get it.

If you're going to pull the water cover off to get at the thermostat, I'd recommend spending a few more bucks to get a water cover gasket too. If it's 35 years old, chances are it won't remove and reinstall without breaking somewhere, and you'll get a water leak.

Also, you may find that the thermostat has been removed completely by a previous owner if the old thermostat failed. Having no thermostat means the motor ciruculates water "wide open" at all times. While not ideal, it's certainly better than having a thermostat that's stuck shut (no water circulation)

Right, I understand that. I think ill take a look at it just to be safe, if the gasket breaks ill order a new one, I have to order a carb rebuild kit and some gas lines anyways so ill just add it to the order, same with the thermostat, if I need a new one ill add it to the order. Luckily I get paid tomorrow haha.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

As kbait said if you get a full spray immediately (within 0 to 10 seconds) on start up then perhaps your T-stat is stuck open. Before I came to that diagnosis I would want to be pretty sure that the water I saw wasn't after 10 seconds or so, which is normal. Those T-stats are quite a pain to replace. You have to take off the latch for the hood to get at it. What no one has told you yet, is the pain those latches are to get back on again. Have a ten year old by you when you do it. His/her smaller fingers will come in quite handy. Trust me. Now you still have to get that water jacket off and even with the latch off, a couple of those screws are again, in very tight spots. If you do need to go there, get a new t-stat seal along with a water cover jacket gasket. You might as well get another t-stat while you are at it. You probably won't want to do this again. If it were me I would only look at it if I really felt it had a problem.

On another note. You said something upthread about the slow speed needle having a ring around it. What did you mean by that? Is this ring just a fine line or a much more larger indent. Those needles need to be pretty cone shaped at the end, to work well.

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

As kbait said if you get a full spray immediately (within 0 to 10 seconds) on start up then perhaps your T-stat is stuck open. Before I came to that diagnosis I would want to be pretty sure that the water I saw wasn't after 10 seconds or so, which is normal. Those T-stats are quite a pain to replace. You have to take off the latch for the hood to get at it. What no one has told you yet, is the pain those latches are to get back on again. Have a ten year old by you when you do it. His/her smaller fingers will come in quite handy. Trust me. Now you still have to get that water jacket off and even with the latch off, a couple of those screws are again, in very tight spots. If you do need to go there, get a new t-stat seal along with a water cover jacket gasket. You might as well get another t-stat while you are at it. You probably won't want to do this again. If it were me I would only look at it if I really felt it had a problem.

On another note. You said something upthread about the slow speed needle having a ring around it. What did you mean by that? Is this ring just a fine line or a much more larger indent. Those needles need to be pretty cone shaped at the end, to work well.

Well I got the thermostat out no problem WITHOUT taking the latch off, it was pretty simple actually. I think it may be stuck open but im not sure, im gonna try to post a picture. It is pretty corroded and old.

What im talking about the ring, is that on the needle in the needle and seat assembly, the needle has a viton tip (Some sort of rubber that doesnt deteriorate in gas) and since it has sat for many years in the seat, it formed a ring around where it touches the metal from beaing seated for so long.

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

Heres the stat, what do you guys think? Need a better pic?

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

Tough to say about that t-stat from the picture. It does look pretty corroded and I am pretty sure I would not put it back in, in any case. I would replace it with a new one. Make sure you get a new seal with the t-stat. They don't always come with one. If you want to check it, just put it into a pot of water on your stove. Put in a thermometer. Heat it up. It should just start to open at around 140 F and be fully open at the 150 F mark.

As for the needle. Is the needle your talking about the inlet needle that is operated by the float? If so, I probably would not worry about it unless it looked deformed or something. I was referring to the slow speed needle that the outside (rich/lean) knob controls. That one you want to be very cone shaped.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

Heres the stat, what do you guys think? Need a better pic?

View attachment 161870

Pic is fine. Replace it. 1 - you have it out, might as well put in a new one. 2 - Looks very corroded as Eagle said.....

 

[someone11]

Re: 74 johnson not peeing after pump replacment

Tough to say about that t-stat from the picture. It does look pretty corroded and I am pretty sure I would not put it back in, in any case. I would replace it with a new one. Make sure you get a new seal with the t-stat. They don't always come with one. If you want to check it, just put it into a pot of water on your stove. Put in a thermometer. Heat it up. It should just start to open at around 140 F and be fully open at the 150 F mark.

As for the needle. Is the needle your talking about the inlet needle that is operated by the float? If so, I probably would not worry about it unless it looked deformed or something. I was referring to the slow speed needle that the outside (rich/lean) knob controls. That one you want to be very cone shaped.

Yeah, im talking about the needle that the float moves. Ive messed with a lot of carbs and if the needle doesnt seat properly and is just a fraction off it can cause lots of headaches, they are finicky.