79 johnson v4 died on the water

rcanders

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Jul 4, 2001
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I recently purchased a '79 johnson v4 140, but am having some problems that I don't really understand. <br /><br />At first it wouldn't hit the upper RPM range (running at about 70 HP). Then yesterday it finally cranked up to around 120 HP, but in the middle of skiing it just sputtered and died. When trying to restart it seemed like it had locked up, but would eventually crank (and start/run after around an hour). The overheating indicator didn't come on. <br />Anybody have ideas on #1 or #2 (previous to yesterday I was leaning toward the fuel pump).
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
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8,217
Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

Do you see water coming from the telltail?<br />I think your original theory of overheating is still valid.<br />Can you touch the block when running without getting burned? Also, look for blistered or burnt paint around the head area.<br />Old gas (over a couple months old) will cause such grief too.
 

rcanders

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Jul 4, 2001
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Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

I had water coming out when it first started and as I was hooking up the ski rope, didn't pay any attention to the water output during<br />the skiing. I am pretty certain there was water coming out after it started again at the boat dock. I didn't try touching the block to see how hot it was.
 

12Footer

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Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

It could be fuel starvation as it ran rough before what appeared to be a sieze-up. What happens when a 2cycle runs too lean is, it get inadequate lubrication,and will lock up,sometimes FATALLY.<br />It could be any point in the fuel circuit too. I'm sorry I can't narrow it down for you any at this point. But let me know what you find with the fuel pump and carbs.
 

rcanders

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Jul 4, 2001
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Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

o.k. I've finally gotten back to working on the boat motor. I rebuilt the fuel pump and there was no change. I've had the boat out on the lake twice and both times it has only run at about 1/2 speed. During startup the motor runs around 5500 RPM for warmup and the throttle linkage is around 1/2 open. When in gear I can only get around 3000 RPM and the throttle linkage is completely open against the stop. This is the same as the first couple of times out on the lake before it kind of locked up. I've been running carb cleaner/gas stabilizer through it for the last two trips, this hasn't helped yet. I just did a compression test and found <br />cyl 1 140<br />cyl 2 130<br />cyl 3 120<br />cyl 4 130<br /><br />only around 15% differentail but not sure if that is a problem on an outboard. Plugs all<br />looked reasonable.<br /><br />Is rebuilding the carbs my best choice from here? Is there a place where already rebuilt carbs can be purchased? I know I can by the<br />kits, but I am not sure if I have the time or knowledge to do the job.<br /><br />Thanks in advance.
 

ICEMAN

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Messages
292
Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

HI, First Do NOT rev the motor up that far (5500) in nuetral. That is not a good thing to do, you can cause damage that way. A motor with no load on it will rev up, even if there is a problem. As 12footer meantioned it could be a fuel problem, There could be a couple other things going on here. It is possible for that motor to overheat in certain areas and not sound the warning horn. There are water deflectors in the water passage around the cylinders, Sometimes (especially if the motor is a salt water motor)These deflectors get deformed and restrict the water flow. It can cause a cylinder to overhead, but not the entire side of the block to sound the warning. A piston can overheat and tighten up in the cylinder, the motor locks up. After it cools the motor will free up. Another area could be the top driveshaft bearing in the lower unit. If the bearing is going bad, it can bind and cause the motor to stall and lock up the motor.
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

couple of quick things you should do..<br /><br />I suggest anyone with older johnson/evinrude moters test..<br /><br />The little horn in the controller of the OMC engines gets clagged fairly easily, I found mine so clogged with gunk that all it did was click.<br /><br />So two things,, if you want to test it, look for a brown lead running from inside the top of one of your cylender heads (on a V4 I think its cyl no 3) there is a connector just near where it runs out of the head..<br />disconnect that wire and touch the lead to the body of the motor with the ignition on..<br /><br />that brown wire runs into your controller to one side of the horn, the other side gets positive on ignition from the key. so if you touch the brown wire to earth, your horn should sound. if it doesn't, then you have a problem and the horn itself would be the first place I'd look.. before you go striping it though, I'd get a multimeter or test light and put it inline with the connections to the horn and repeat the test proceedure above, if you get a light or a 12 volt reading, then the wiring is fine and you should test the horn itself.<br /><br />I took my horn out entirely, replaced it with a diode protected heavy duty relay,, used the relay to switch a full sized car horn that I put under my dashboard.. works great and I can't miss it now, its deafening. :D <br /><br />hope thats of some help..<br /><br />you might also look into schematics posts on fitting a temp guage to the engine, I have done this myself now, and it works great also.<br /><br />a couple of points.<br /><br />1. If you had cooked it to the point where it "sorta" locked up, I doubt you would still have compression that high. your rings would have lost alot of their tension getting that hot.<br />2. What mixture are you running it on? should be 50:1, but if I were you, I'd run it on 32:1 till you get the problem sorted.<br />3. when an engine gets hot enough to lock up, you can usually smell it.. the paint on the block and heads will be smoking and blistered and a drop of water on your fingertip dropped on your head will evaporate immediatly. (if you can touch all heads for 5 slow seconds without massive pain, its not likely an overheat problem.)<br />4. how do you know it sorta locked up? did you take the cover off and try turning the flywheel by hand? you may have an electrical problem that gets exacerbated by heat, (like the starter soleniod) I have had a similiar problem with my old LARK40. also, when you are trying to turn it over after lockup, do you have it in neutral? it won't or shouldn't turn over unless its in neutral, there is a switch near the throtle linkage to prevent that from happening.<br />5. If you can avoid it, don't keep running the engine till it "locks" to test theories.. you can kill it very easily depending on what the problem is.<br /><br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Frank
 

rcanders

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Jul 4, 2001
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Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

The only reason I was saying that is "sorta locked up" was that after the engine died it was very hard to crank (electric start, not by hand). It seemed that there was resistence to the piston in trying to turn over the motor. This has only happened one time. I tested the overheating indicator and it does appear to work (horn sounds when simulus is applied). <br /><br />As for RPM's in neutral, with the lever at start/warmup it cranks up to that high RPM's, I'm not forcing it, and I can't move the lever down right away or the engine dies (as you would expect since not warmed up).<br /><br />The problem is power under load. 5 out of 6 times that I've been out on the lake I've had<br />what I consider only half power (doesn't plane out or make much wake). I can't tell if it is getting too much fuel or too little (although it does use plenty of gas). On the day that I did get full speed, we had flooded the engine and used a good bit of starter fluid (real good bit). This is the only day that the motor stalled on the water.<br /><br />More thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.
 

Jamesreflexx

Recruit
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
3
Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

I have a johnson 9.9 o/b and i snapped the pull cord. How difficult is this to change, and what do I need to do? thanks
 

Theoutdoorsman

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Messages
669
Re: 79 johnson v4 died on the water

Sounds like you quite possibly have several different problems going on here. Possible fuel restriction, link and sync errors, starter issues, and/or water pump needs attention. Soooo....... first things first........ If you haven't already, purchase an OEM Service Manual for your outboard! Not the clymer or other aftermarket products. You will be much better off with an OEM Manual specific to your model.

1) Before you continue running the outboard, it MUST have an adequate supply of water to cool the block. Otherwise, get your checkbook ready for a complete rebuild. You should get that under control first. How long has it been since the water pump was replaced. If more than 2 yrs, you should replace it now. If your not sure, just go ahead and replace it. Better safe than sorry. The 2 temperature sensors can be easily removed by sliding back the rubber sleeves on the brown wires, disconnecting the spade connectors, and pulling them from the heads. You can check to see if they are making contact via conecting an ohm meter to them and submerging them in a pot of hot water on the stove. A meat thermometer should be used to monitor water temp. Just going on memory here, I think they should open at around 145*F. You will need some gasket sealer to re-install them if they are good. If found defective, replacements aren't hard to find. The store here at iBoats likely has them. If you can hold your hand on the heads for more than 5 seconds, I would scratch this from my to-do list.

2) Secondly, when the outboard stalls, there is no mentioned of anything regarding the condition of the fuel bulb. Is it flat or is it still a good firm bulb (a little soft is to be expected but not overly mushy like a rotten tomato). Can you keep the outboard running by squeezing the bulb? If it's sucked flat, this would indicate the fuel pump is likely doing it's job and you have a restriction between the bulb and the fuel cell. Anti-siphon valves are notorious for sticking partially closed and restricting the fuel supply. If the outboard is new to you, and you say it is, it may be time for a carb bath and new kits installed. The carbs are a piece of cake. No need to purchase new ones. There is a walk through on the FAQ's forum for them as well. Follow it to the letter.

3) Compression seems good to me. There is a little difference in the cylinder readings, but I wouldn't be too awfully alarmed. It may be in need of a good decarb, if you haven't done that. Since this outboard is new to you, It sure wouldn't hurt to go ahead and take care of that when you get it running correctly. This needs to be done as part of your anual maintenance as well. Check the FAQ's forum for how-to's. Have you tested spark? Should be jumping a 7/16" gap, with an adjustable gap spark tester, which is available at your local automotives parts store. Check again when your troubles start. You could be dropping a cylinder when things get warm. Also, try to turn the flywheel by hand if/when you suspect it is locking up. This would be a sure way to tell. You may consider pulling the plugs first to make this task much easier. If not, then pull the safety lanyard and kill all spark first. We don't need any accidents. If, with the plugs removed, you find it to be locking up you need to stop running the outboard immediately until you determine the cause.

4) Your starter needs to be able to spin the flywheel at least 300-350 rpm to generate spark sufficient for starting the outboard. It may be time to have it rebuilt. ? Ensure all your connections are shiney clean. And I mean shiney!!!! Ensure all your cables are in good shape too. No cracks in them that may allow water intrussion leading to internal corrosion.

5) The fact that you can generate 5000 rpm with the warm-up lever suggests a link and sync may be in order. My '79 E'rude 140 will not go much higher than 3000 rpm with the warm up lever fully raised. This is assuming the boat is on the water. Do not do this at home on the muffs!!! The outboard needs to be in the water so that you have back pressure on the exhaust. If done on the muffs, and reved higher than a mere fast idle (1500 rpm's), you risk having a runaway outboard on your hands and looking at a completely ruined powerhead and a new pair of trousers will likely be in order as well!!! Have you made any adjustments to anything that could be causing this issue? Consider looking at the timer base, located under the flywheel, and make certain it isn't sticking. Also, what plugs are you running? My '79 E'rude manual suggests a UL-77V permagap plug made by Champion. I suspect yours will too. Others may recommend the QL77JC4 plugs gapped at .030. Personally, I chose to stay with the recommended UL-77V permagap plug. I have had no known issues with them as of yet. If you do a lot of trolling around, the later plug might be a better choice. I'm sure others will chime in on this. To each his own I suppose. When removed, do the plugs all appear the same? Or is one, or more, different than the others? Describe their appearance. Your cylinders are listed like this while looking at the motor from the rear of the boat:

(port side) 1..........2 (starboard side)
(port side) 3..........4 (starboard side)


4) Stop using starting fluid in your outboard. It is breaking the oil down and your not getting addequate lubrication to your cylinders. Use a premix bottle of gas and oil instead. If your getting a good spark, to go along with the compression numbers you've posted, it shouldn't be too hard to start at all when using the premix. When your problem with planing occurs, push the key in to engage the electric choke and see if the outboard picks up or stalls. This can give others a clue as to what direction you might need to go in.

5) Purchase a manual specific to your outboard. I know it's already been mentioned, but it can't be said enough. You will need this in order to familiarize yourself with the terms used in describing the various components in respect to the link and sync process.

Let us know what you find in your testing. As you can see, there is much more information required to better assist you. Check some of this out and get back with us. Good luck!!!................. ALAN


BTW........ Welcome to iBoats!!!!!
 
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