81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Scaaty

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Yep, pull the flywheel. I'd spring for new coils (about $20 each), and see what the points look like...maybe just a good file and polish will work. Anyway, on the Flywheel, you can try this without a puller (I hardly ever use a puller, but then again I've been doing this for a LONG time). Take a couple good big, solid, long screwdrivers, and with another person helping, get them under the flywheel (be careful what you will be pressing on), and with pressure on them forcing the flywheel up, put the nut just above the threads on the shaft, and with a large heavy hammer ( a small sledge will work), give a solid rap on the nut. What you're doing is shocking the wheel off the taper. Don't beat the hell out of it, just a good solid rap, and it should pop off. If you feel a little leary doing this, whip up or buy a puller.
 

cobra 3.0

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Did you try swapping the cables too?
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

If you've got that engine running as it should by now, fine. If not, I'll add my two cents worth.

The fact that the engine runs with the choke on with the throttle set to high speed indicates that fuel is being delivered to the carburetor BUT is not being delivered freely thru the carburetor passageways.

If you're absolutely sure that the carburetor is completely clean, it's out of adjustment. However, I'd suggest that you double check that carburetor work.

The 1981 4hp models have magneto ignition and use a carburetor with two (2) adjustaable needle valves, the top one being the low speed adjustment with the lower one being of course the high speed adjustment.

BUT, just in case you might have the 4.5hp model, this model has electronic ignition with a brass fixed high speed jet located in the extreme bottom portion of the top carburetor body. If this is the case, make sure that this fixed jet is absolutely clean.

Magneto ignition: Use Champion J6C plugs gapped at .030 .

Electronic ignition: Use Chamipon QL77JC4 or L77JC4 plugs gapped at .040 . The "Q" indicates a suppressor plug which helps to quiet any ignition noise that might interfere with electronic equipment on board.

Following are the adjustment procedured for both type carburetors.

(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)
(J. Reeves)

Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

Note: As a final double check setting of the slow speed valve(s), if the engine has more than one carburetor, do not attempt to gradually adjust all of the valves/carburetors at the same time. Do one at a time until you hit the above response (die out or spit back), then go on to the next valve/carburetor. It may be necessary to back out "all" of the slow speed adjustable needle valves 1/8 turn before doing this final adjustment due to the fact that one of the valves might be initially set ever so slightly lean.

When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.
--------------------------------------------------
(Carburetor Adjustments - Two Adjustable N/Vs)
(J. Reeves)

Initial settings are: Bottom high speed = seat gently, then open 1 turn out. Top slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Setting the high and low needle valves properly:

NOTE: For engines that DO NOT have a shift selection, obviously there is no NEUTRAL position. Simply lower the rpms to the lowest setting to obtain the low speed needle valve adjustment.

(High Speed) Start engine (it will run pretty rough), shift into forward gear, take up to full throttle. In segments of 1/8 turn, waiting for the engine to respond between turns, start turning in the bottom high speed needle valve. You'll reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the needle valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest setting.

(Low Speed) Slow the engine down to where it just stays running. Shift into neutral. Again in segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the top needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running. Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back. Again, at that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

When you have finished the above adjustments, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.
 

evinrude81

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Oct 9, 2006
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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Hi All,

Tonight's latest episode.

Went across to a buddy of mine who has a harmonic balancer and pulled the flywheel off to take a peek. I didn't see any evidence of WD40 issues but was able to run a few tests with the resistance in various places being a little out of kilter so I think the components are showing their age. That said, the plug that wouldn't fire went straight to a coil with clear problems - I think the coils are originals so long overdue. The side that's not sparking, apart from the obvious surface cracks, had a small hole with a corresponding burn on the magneto metal. I do believe that one was arcing so not too surprising I didn't see a spark. The other coil was cracked in a number of places so on the way out for sure.

So, definitely fuel problems as you guys pointed me to, hopefully resolved (but I'm not ruling out carb issues to be found in the near future doubtless), but also one coil out, and one not far off. I reckon I got it started on 'fast' but running on one cylinder only.

So, the next plan is to replace the coils and everything else in there while I'm at it. I think this will be money well invested for sure as far as eventual reliability goes. I'll probably go quiet for a few days now while I get these delivered, then the magneto reassembled, then I'll report back on the project.

Must say you guys have been very helpful and have pointed me in the right direction. I'm learning a huge amount about this type of engine by working on it, and getting a great deal of satisfaction, so many thanks for the pointers and encouragement. Perhaps the birth of a new hobby once I've got this one up to par :)

Many thanks,
Mark
 

Scaaty

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5,180
Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Actually, I enjoy troubleshooting/working on others motors here...ya don't get your hands dirty!
Got a real good feeling you WERE running on one cylinder, hence no slow speed running. Do the coils. Wish ya luck.!
 

mikesea

Lieutenant Commander
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Oct 1, 2006
Messages
1,830
Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

scatty,couldn't agree more. I love this stuff.At 50 yrs. Im full of arthritis already,and doin this stuff in the real world has took its toll.But if I can make use of myself and kep the brain cells working,good therapy plus helping a fellow.Glad I found the site.
 

evinrude81

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Latest update in the saga. Nothing new to really report but I must say that I am very impressed by ishopmarine.com. Late Thursday night, I ordered coils and tune up kits while I was at it so everthing is new in the magneto. Came to only $50 and was in stock. These guys had it shipped to me by Monday - terrific turnround so they get my recommendation. Got around to installing the parts tohight but had no time to close teh magneto and se if I have sparks - Should see no reason why not as it was simple to install. The good folk at ISM are seeingh if they can locate original fit HT leads (now regarded as vintage parts). If they can't, then I'm sure I can make some up.

Two question: The magneto taken apart had no oiler wicks. (1) where do they do? The diagram I have is a little dificult to se, and (2) what purpose do they solve and is maintenance required periodically (ie a drop of oil)?

Tomorow we'll put that magneto cover on and see if we're sparking and how out of whack the carb is :)

Another question? Since the grease in the lower end is ancient, it it worth my while chaning it before I start firing this thing up in earnest?

It's getting pretty exciting... Thanks all for being so supportive for a complete duffer...

Mark
 

Xcusme

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Apr 21, 2003
Messages
2,888
Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Mark, you can make your own spark plug cables using solid core type wire. Should be 7mm,don't use modern automotive resistance wire. The wick oiler keeps the face of the cam lubed and the wick is held by a metal clip.Pre-oiled wicks can be bought at your nearest dealer. A couple drops of light machine oil is all thats needed if you're using old ones. New wicks usually come with new point sets. You'll need only one wick. If youcan't find the wick, apply a thin film of oil to the face of the cam.
When you set the point gap, rotate crankshaft and align the points rub block and the woodruf key in the crankshaft. Set point gap to .020. For the other set of points, rotate the crankshaft 180 degrees and again, align the rub block and woodruf key. Adjust point gap for 2nd set of points to .020. Make sure the coil wires won't foul against the flywheel or crankshaft and replace the flywheel.

When you mount the coils, be sure the coils are aligned flush with the mounting bases. Surface A and surface B, should be flush.

Crackedcoil.jpg
 

Scaaty

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

mikesea said:
scatty,couldn't agree more. I love this stuff.At 50 yrs. Im full of arthritis already,and doin this stuff in the real world has took its toll.But if I can make use of myself and kep the brain cells working,good therapy plus helping a fellow.Glad I found the site.


Tell me about the aches and pain! Only 56, and some days EVERYTHING hurts. Arthritis is is extremely painful. But this does exercise the old brain. Never give up. I just got done building a "minibike" out of an old dirtbike frame and wheels, just because I still can. And still fun! Like my Harley's and other bikes and boats too, but putting down the street has me grinning ear to ear.on this new toy. I'll never grow up. old maybe, but never up. Wish ya luck on the motor!
 

evinrude81

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

All the latest news. IT RUNS!!!! Replaced all the electrics in the magneto, took heed of the above on aligning the coils, set the basic carb settings from above too, and fired it up. Combine that with the fuel work I did and it ran very smoothly with very little effort to start so I'm very pleased. So now on to the other lesser details...

1. I do need to get the carb adjustments down so that it will run at the lower end of the slow seting. Right now, much below the 'W' on SLOW I risk stalling - the above advice will help I think.

2. I noticed that the pull rope will sometimes stick - not so good as it has the potential to strand me. Planning on taking that apart tomorrow as things seem a bit stiff so I'm not aways getting the rope to retract.

3. Anyone know if there's an air filter for these things. Right now the carb is open to the elements and only covered by the lower housing - doesn't seem right to me. I plan on researching a bit so I'll probably find out but thought I'd ask

4. Do a gear oil changes as that hasn't been done in at least a decade.

5. Buy a couple of spare props - anyone got a good supplier?

6. Can anyone suggest anything else I should do?

Great help everyone, and many thanks - I've read everything and used much of what you guys gave me. I'm having a great time learning about this and at the end of the day I hope to have a great little motor for under $150 - what a deal!

Thanks, Mark
 

Scaaty

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5,180
Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

All the latest news. IT RUNS!!!! Replaced all the electrics in the magneto, took heed of the above on aligning the coils, set the basic carb settings from above too, and fired it up. Combine that with the fuel work I did and it ran very smoothly with very little effort to start so I'm very pleased. So now on to the other lesser details...

Well, that problem solved!

1. I do need to get the carb adjustments down so that it will run at the lower end of the slow seting. Right now, much below the 'W' on SLOW I risk stalling - the above advice will help I think.

Make sure it warms up good before adjusting...and run it in a barrel/garbage can

2. I noticed that the pull rope will sometimes stick - not so good as it has the potential to strand me. Planning on taking that apart tomorrow as things seem a bit stiff so I'm not aways getting the rope to retract.

I would NOT take it apart..that spring will bite ya and a pain to replace...just get in there and oil everything up, and silicone the rope

3. Anyone know if there's an air filter for these things. Right now the carb is open to the elements and only covered by the lower housing - doesn't seem right to me. I plan on researching a bit so I'll probably find out but thought I'd ask

No filter.....

4. Do a gear oil changes as that hasn't been done in at least a decade.

Yep, and get new seals for the screws

5. Buy a couple of spare props - anyone got a good supplier?

Worry about the props at another time..Ebay always a good option...don't know offhand who sells them

6. Can anyone suggest anything else I should do?

Use it on a boat with a smile ear to ear?
 

mikesea

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
1,830
Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

not much dust on the high seas dont need a stinking filter,hows the carb settings, do you have any initial settings,if not,I think 3/4 of a turn on the high speed ,usually the bottom ,1 and 1/2 on low .get the high speed fine adj at wide open throttle 1/8 of a turn little at a time until it starts to lose power each way then find happy center,low speed,play until you ca nt get it to idle any lower with the thrittle.then open it about a 1/4 more,prevents a lean out,dont recall the whole stork,but an impeller is utmost important,change yearly,and gear lube. your a pro now,time for a big motor
 

freddyray21

Commander
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Jun 10, 2006
Messages
2,460
Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

If it's like mine you can take the top two screws off be careful and hang onto it. Turn it a couple of revolutions to tighten the spring then put the screws back in.
 

evinrude81

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Oct 9, 2006
Messages
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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Hey Scaaty - you missed one. Sit back with beer and smug look.... I think I'll do that tomorrow.

My mechanically inclined buddy did take the pull assembly apart (I owe him a big favor) and the spring did attempt to bite him. Fortunately it was so gummed up with 25 years of gunk it was defanged :) Everything in there was very sticky so a thorough cleaning and relube with graphite on the spring has this in perfect condition. So just a few minor things left and we're ready to go.

I am having trouble finding a spare prop - the one that's on there is a 3 blade plastic. I've been searching the web for quite a while so any pointers there very welcome.

Thanks everyone. Couldn't have done it without you. This was great so perhaps on to a bigger motor as suggested as soon as I find one just for the challenge!

Mark
 

Scaaty

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Found ya a prop. Iboats does not have or at least list one, but Ishopmarine does. Go there, go to parts search, look down to Evinrude/Johnson, and in the Parts Search box, type 0319774... the Part # has been superseded to # 0318487. 3 blade plastic, 28 bucks
 

evinrude81

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Fantastic - thanks. I'd obviously not looked deeply enough there - especially as I think these guys have great service since I used them for the parts and they were great on price and speed. I'm off to order one right now! Cheers - I'll have a beer in your name later!!

Mark
 

Scaaty

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Cheers. The more I can help here, the more I learn myself. I went through and sold my neighbor an 84 4hp, and although those plastic props are really tough stuff, I now have a source if another is needed. Keep us up to date, with a picture of that puppy and you when it hits the water!
 

evinrude81

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Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Well, I enjoyed my smugness and beer for a while then decided to keep tinkering as one does. Pulled off a few very rusted and stiff parts and replaced or cleaned so all is good there - minor stuff really. I also changed the gear oil which didn't look too bad (no water penetration present and still fairly clear) considering the age but now I know it's done.

I did have a few bits of metal in the drain but nothing to alarm me particularly - I'm assuming age will eventually force replacement - but since it spins without excess noise and vibration I'm leaving this be for now - though differing opinions welcome. Basically some small grindings and two or three 1/32 - 1/16" sized flat chunks of something.

While at it I decided to take off the prop and take a look. All is good in there except for one thing, and this is where I need your help folks.

Everything semed in good order except a small spring dropped out. A little sleuthing later, it seemed to be what I would describe as the remains of an 'O' ring that secures the seal to the gearhouse bearing assembly - though made from a very small and tightly wound spring. It sat, I think, in a small groove that runs around the front of the seal to hold it tight against the prop shaft. The seal looks a bit like a Mexican hat with the spring 'O' ring holding the seal around the prop shaft - around the top of the hat. Obviously it's been broken a while and the seal is still holding but I'd like to secure it if possible.

This one may be a challenge as I can't see the part in any of the catalogs I can access online, and from what I can see it comes as part of a complete assembly (the gearhouse bearing assembly). I was mulling on bodging it with a tight plastic O ring but I'm thinking the durablity may be a bit suspect there (then again the spring looks a bit flimsy too). My other thoughts were a variety of solid clips but I'd be a bit concerned that they may be too rigid and eventually chew up the seal

Anyone got any ideas where I can either buy one or substitute something else in?

Many thanks again,
Mark
 

evinrude81

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And in case you were wondering....

And in case you were wondering....

What all this is about, being a long time ex-pat Brit, 20+ years in the USA, nostalgia got me a while ago and I've been collecting parts in preparation for the arrival of a Mirror Dinghy kit. There's one fella up in Canada who has the license to manufacture in North America so it's being created as we speak and will arrive here in about a month. For the unitiated, this is a wood boat that's been available since 1963 and is probably the world's most popular 11" dinghy (my kit is sail number 70407). It's a two sail boat, that can also take an outboard (hence the string) so I fully plan to use the motor to navigate the river out to the edge of the San Francisco Bay (well, actually may not get past the pub that's on the way), though we have some great small lakes around here.

I also scrounged a derelict trailer of just the right size that was in quite a state - the guy who owned it was 'required' to get rid of it by his wife after 3 yeas on rustily cluttering up thir back garden so it was mine for free if I towed it away. After many new parts and a few weekends of work, pleased to say this thing now looks great and is going to be perfect for the Mirror and the outboard.

Completely off the topic but thought someone might be interested :)

Mark
 

Scaaty

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May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: 81 4HP starts but cuts out after a min or two

Probably just the rear seal...Go to Ishop, parts search in evinrude PN # 0324639. Just pry the old one out, and tap the new one in. The spring holding the lip will face the gearcase, not you. Grease it up first too.. I'd flush out the gearcase with a little mineral spririts too.
You can find all the info I giving you here..

http://epc.brp.com/default.aspx?brands=ej&lang=e

A little hard to figure out how to navigate to what you need, but you can do it..I can't get a link to it to work...ya need to go through quite a few screens to get to the parts diagram
 
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