84 60 hp Johnson no spark

[lmbr]

Have been restoring this motor. (Sat idle for 3 years) After cleaning and rebuilding carbs, cleaned the entire fuel system and replacing power pack it started and ran good but no tell tale. Went thru lengthy process of replacing water pump impeller, changed thermostat, serviced pressure relief valve and water problem seems fixed. Now engine won't fire and not getting any spark. Is there a way to test the power pack. When I wasn't getting spark earlier I replaced the power pack and it ran good. I don't mind replacing the new power pack again if necessary but would like to be sure that it is bad before I get another one. I assuming the coils are ok since they both aren't firing but expect they wouldn't both fail at the same time. Other trouble shooting tips would be appreciated also..

 

[jakedaawg]

2 cyl 60hp? Need a model number here.

Did it run after you replaced power pack? Did you place the grounding eyelet from the pack under a mounting bolt so that it has good ground?

disconnect amphenol connector at power pack. Jump all the wires that are NOT blk/yel. Leave blk/yel open. Do you now have spark on all? Yes or no.

 

[lmbr]

Model # is J60ELCRE. Yes it ran fine after replacing the power pack except for the water pump issue which turned out to be the nylon wedge impeller key worn out. Then after going thru all the cooling system, now I am not getting any spark. also not sure exactly what you mean by "Jump all the wires that are NOT blk/yel" Jump what to what?

 

[jakedaawg]

I use little wires with a Male and female amphenol pin and socket on each end.

disconnect the connector. Use jumper wires to hook up all the wires that are not blk/yel to each other. Leave the blk/yel open. Then check for spark. This tests the stop circuit and let's you know quickly which direction to continue tests. If you have spark then you know that coils and stator and sensor and pack are good. The problem is in the switch or harness. No spark means you start testing electrics on motor side. This method saves hundreds of dollars.

 

[lmbr]

Haven't had a chance to check the last reply yet but just realized something else.

The secondary ignition coils have an orange wire from each coil to "B" & "C" on the connector. On the other end of the connector there is an orange wire going to "C" on the connector and an orange/blue wire going to "B" , When I replaced the head gasket/ thermostat, I removed both coils from the motor and did not note which one went on top.(Duh, not too smart.) Pretty sure that is important as seems like that should determine the firing order. Any help on which one goes on the top?

 

[boobie]

Blue goes to the top.

 

[lmbr]

Checked all the wiring as above still no spark. It is acting exactly as it did prior to replacing the power pack. That instantly fixed it then. Hard to think the power pack would be bad again unless they are really sensitive,

Need to swap the position of the 2 coils and pit the ome with the Y/BL on top.

 

[jakedaawg]

A bad key switch can kill a power pack real quick. No voltage/amperage can ever go to blk/yel wire. Make sure no one used blk/yel as a ground for accessories.

also check that power pack ground is good and to clean metal.

if you left blk/yel open and no spark still got cdi electronics . Com and use their free trouble shooting guide.

 

[Vandkanten]

jakedaawg I havn't heard about "Use jumper wires to hook up all the wires that are not blk/yel to each other." - Can you expain this even more. It sounds interresting.

@imbr, I have heard that you should replace the sensor whenever you replace the powerpack. They can kill eachother if not replaced at the same time. Maybe someone really pro can confirm this. Meanwhile you can try clean the sensors (isopropyl alcohol)

 

[jakedaawg]

jakedaawg

@imbr, I have heard that you should replace the sensor whenever you replace the powerpack. They can kill eachother if not replaced at the same time.

Not true, sounds like something a shadetree who just knows enough to get in trouble would say.

 

[Vandkanten]

Maybe I just misunderstooed the CDI troubleshooting guide.

POWER PACK OR TIMER BASE REPEATEDLY BLOWS ON SAME CYLINDER:
1. Check the sensor wires for shorts to engine ground as a shorted sensor wire can destroy a SCR inside the power pack.
2. In contrast, a shorted SCR inside the power pack can destroy a sensor coil.

 

[lmbr]

Ordered a new power pack. When I used the trouble shooter from CDI it showed the power pack to be bad. So I guess I'll see. I know I need to check for no voltage (above 2 V) on the Black/Yellow wire (Kill Switch). Any other helpful tips? Don't want to have to buy another pack.

 

[lmbr]

Finally got all my electrical problems fixed and got the motor started. Ran ok and even restarted several times. But now it has fuel coming out of the throat of the upper carb after I shut it down. I had overhauled the carbs and replaced all the nozzles I could still find parts for. Figured the floats and needle valves must not be set right so I opened the carbs back up and checked the floats. Everything is set to the specks so I don't know. The engine naturally with this problem it totally flooded. Any ideas?

 

[jakedaawg]

Needle and seat and float...that's the only thing it can be.

Did you install new parts? Some seats get a little washer under them, some dont...

hold carb upside down, blow in fuel inlet. You should not be able to blow through.

 

[lmbr]

Haven't tried blowing on it. I did put new seats, needles and floats. That is what I don't understand. I set the float as per the specs in the manual and ordered the parts based on the number on the carbs themselves. Had to go thru a lot of "no longer available" and "replaced by". I was able to get these parts but some of the high speed and other jets seem to not be available anymore. Guess that's what happens when you deal with 34 y.o. motors. The other frustrating thing is there seems to have been no standardization of the components. Be nice if I could have found the carbs rebuilt as if new. Would save a lot of time and money.

 

[racerone]

Not sure where you were shopping.-----Carburetor kits are readily available.-----No need to replace the brass jets if motor cylinders / pistons are in good condition.

 

[oldboat1]

http://ww2.iboats.com/Carburetor/dm/...iew_id.1551466 Gasket #7 sometimes gets missed or misplaced (sometimes called a nozzle gasket). Not sure it's absence would cause flooding at the throat, but guess it might.

 

[boobie]

If gasket # 7 is missing it will cause the carb to run lean.

 

[lmbr]

racerone - carb kits came from iboats. I don't know how it was running before I quit using it, but when I overhauled the carbs, I disassembled them and soaked them in cleaner. That's when I found there were some missing orifices. On this particular motor there are no needle valves therefore no adjustments on the carbs. Could this mean that those are sealed and not used? Just checked the parts diagram and the orifice labeled #13 is not even listed in the parts list.

oldboat1 - you are right I opened the carb that is flooding and I guess I missed putting that gasket in the last time I worked on it. Will get it put in and check the other one and then see what happens. Feel kinda dumb right now. I guess just an inadvertent mistake.

 

[lmbr]

OK checked the carb again. The gasket was in there. Turned the carb over and did the "blow test". It failed. Had installed a new seat and needle valve. Luckily I still had all the parts from the overhaul so I put one of the old needle valves in and that fixed the blow test. But still had the fuel problem. When I squeeze the primer bulb, fuel come out of the throat big time. After cranking the motor, when I stop a small amount of fuel seeps out of the throat for several seconds. Checked the float adjustment and it is as per the overhaul instructions. I did find some new orifices I had ordered and put them in.The ones in the bowl. i'm at a loss. I thought that when the bowl is full the float closes the needle valve and stops fuel from coming in.Then when the motor runs the float and needle valve meter the amount of fuel coming in to maintain the proper level in the bowl. Is there any other way for fuel to get thru the carb? When I squeeze the primer bulb, should it force fuel thru the needle valve?