'84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

[A2M2]

Last summer I had the boat running well, then literally overnight on our camping trip, I lost all top end. It idles, and moves along at fast idle, but wont rev up or plane out.
Starting last fall, I have done my best verify the fuel lines, fuel pump, bulb, vent line, etc. All seems to be in good order. I did a quick double check again today
I got in running again today with the earmuffs, warmed it up, and got compression numbers-
#1 (top). 142
#2. 140
#3. 140

I then just poked around blindly for few minutes- when I pull the #1 plug wire, it stumbles and drops way off. ( it also zaps me!). When I pull #2, no change at all (and no zap). #3... Same result as #1, stumbles (no zap). I tried swapping leads, but it would sort of backfire and die instantly if I put the #3wire on #2 and nothing would happen if I put the #2 wire on #3. (Just running on #1 only). I did swap plugs around to verify that they were not the problem.
Bottom line, no spark on #2. I don't like just throwing parts at things, but I'm very very green at outboards.
Where does a guy go next?

Thanks!

 

[scottmm73]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

ISSUU - CDI Electronics Troublbshooting Guide - 2012 by CDI Electronics


Page 86, trouble shooting for your system.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Since it's an 85 and #2 isin't firing?? Try switching the packs around.
Try switching the coils?
Fill out the profile? You might be close to someone who can help?Your motor comes with 2 different electrical systems.
A serial#,Model# a pic? These will help.
Being as your working on it yourself? Get a few spark testers.An analog test meter.
A way to ground out the plug wires and a jump box or a remote starter. These are the base tools for working on your motor.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

I tried swapping leads, but it would sort of backfire and die instantly if I put the #3wire on #2 and nothing would happen if I put the #2 wire on #3. (Just running on #1 only). I did swap plugs around to verify that they were not the problem.
Bottom line, no spark on #2. I don't like just throwing parts at things, but I'm very very green at outboards.
Where does a guy go next?

Thanks!

You just don't swap wires around like you did since this will take negatively affect the timing. You can however, swap identical components like CD modules, coils or spark plugs around. In your case try Jerry's suggestion of switching the coils. If the problem persists, replace things back and then switch the CD modules. Always make sure you mark wires very carefully and always return to original position when switching components.

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Thanks guys-
I got my profile filled out a little better, I'll get some photos and get them loaded up.
I realized the issue with the timing, shortly after I posted that... Pretty much a -Duhhhhhhhh!!!! moment! Lol. I know it didn't have enough uumph to do any damage as it was just limping along on one cylinder, but I will be smarter next time!

I will tackle it further tomorrow after work, (mountain bike ride tonight! )

Thanks again!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

His packs should be the plug an play type.
Instead of screws they have sockets and plugs.

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Update!!
It isn't spark. Ignition seems fine. I verified spark with several tests. I grounded the plug and saw the spark, used an inline plastic bubble tester, and the Lisle tester that lies over the wire.
Anyway, time for a new direction. I have fuel, in fact I'm afraid too much. Not only is the plug wet, but so is the seat, and the front of the air intake. I closed the idle jet down and there was no difference in idle speed, and only very little change in how wet the plug is. Please note!!!- this started last summer on our maiden voyage trip. The boat ran great on day 1, all day. I added a can of fuel....NOPE... same fuel, bought at the same time, same pump, same same... I filled the boat, the cans, and the truck at the same time... Anyhow
The next morning it started fine, and seemingly idled fine, but wouldn't rev up or plane out. Just kind of a fast idle for the remainder of the trip. Now I know it was only idling on two cylinders though.
Any tips?

Thank you!

 

[Triphammer]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

This happened all of a sudden, all at once. Look through or remove your carbs & check to make sure you don't have a broken reed.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

#2 cylinder runs the fuel pump.
Check the diaphram.

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

OK guys-
Thanks for the input thus far!
Just came in from the garage. Pulled the fuel pump, and while the diaphram looks pretty good, it is a little bit baggy. I thoroughly inspected it, even tried shining a flashlight through it. I see no possible way fuel could get past it. The baggy-ness may effect performance, but not leak, right? Will replace it anyway...

I then pulled the carbs. I looked in the throat of the intakes and didn't see anything alarming. Not that I know what the heck I'm looking at. (They're reeds, right?) lol

Next, I disassembled the #2 carb. Everything looked spotless. All passages were clear, needles are in good shape, etc. Of course, now I'll be picking up a set of rebuild kits anyway.

So that leaves me still stumped. I now have to get parts to reassemble, but I have no reason to think that there will be any change

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

If the carbs are that clean? The replacement parts might give you a fit trying to install.
Most time it's better to use the old if it's good.
Top post in the Force Forum,there is a linc from FrankA Called a Linc@sinc. try that too.

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Well, good to know, thanks. I now have to have at least one intake needle seat and retaining ring though, since I followed the directions in my manual! :facepalm:

Any thoughts on my next course of action?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl



You sure the middle carb is feeding?
Sometimes ??? The seat will swell and not let fuel in?
(gas at the front of the intake)The reeds behind the carbs,nothing missing,nothing cracked,not too far open?
The first pic shows the reds closed normal.The second shows one reed open any more than 2-3thousand might be too much.
You do the linc@sinc? Linkage opening the butterfly?
Manually operate it and look inside?

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

I'm stuck waiting on parts now, as I damaged the inlet seat when I removed it.
I am in no way certain about anything, lol! I am pretty sure the carb was feeding though, as the plug was very wet, and the bowl was full when I pulled the carbs last night.
I will further inspect the reeds tonight. I just looked into the throats and nothing looked different from one cylinder to another.
Before removing the carbs, I had verified that all linkages were aligned, opening fully, etc. That was my very first starting point, as it first felt like it "just wasn't getting full throttle". I have not been able to confirm timing or anything, since it's now apart.

Thanks again for taking the time to help!!

 

[Jiggz]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Good compression, fuel and air mix, spark and no fire? The only thing I can think of is broken or non-flat reeds. You can't tell reeds are not seating properly unless you pull them out and look against a bright light. I'll say pull out the reeds, re-assemble everything back, double check compression on #2 and try again. If there's still no fire double check sparks again making sure you have enough or strong spark and not just a little one.

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Uuggghh! I just spent the evening going everything with a fine tooth comb. I still find nothing that says-"hey, here's your problem". I did not pull the reeds yet, just looked very carefully with a bright light. Everything sure LOOKS good, but I understand what you're saying. One thing that worries me about pulling the reeds- will I wind up needing more parts? Gaskets and such? If they are indeed in good shape, am I going to just be able to put it back together?
I also spent a long time tonight going over the wiring. I replaced the little plug in deals on the two coil packs that still had them, and replaced the cheap butt connectors with high quality heat-shrink connectors. I build truck bodies, trailers and generator houses for work, so I have access to some really nice stuff!
One thing I found was this-

It was wrapped in electrical tape and just hanging there. It appears that it came from the circuit breaker?? There is a "new" wire running from the cb up the main harness into the boat

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Probably developed a short somewhere and needed a new wire.
This shouldn't affect the fire on #2

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

I forgot to mention!!!!
Last night when I was digging, I inspected the fuel pump again. I looked at the check valves closely. I'm sorry I didn't think to take pics, but... Of the three valves, how do you get them out?
Valve #1, behind strainer screen- I see a gasket under it, and it looks just like valve #2. Silver colored metal with a 3pronged "bridge" holding a black rubber disk. #2 of course comes out easy with two machine screws clamping it in. Those two look real good, and #2, I was able to suck/blow on it and it sealed
#3 is brass colored with a plastic looking membrane. I did the suck/blow on the outlet hose barb, and I can definitely move air both directions!
I know I need to replace, but how do I get it out?? AND.... Might this have anything to do with my running problem? Doesn't seem like it, as two out three run well...

Thanks again!

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Ok, got a few updates!
I finally recieved all my new parts and did more cleaning, inspecting and adjusting. I replaced the float inlet needle seat in #2, found a sticking needle in #3, cleaned and polished all the needle tips, adjusted all three floats (all were WAY off), and replaced a few gaskets. I got everything linked back together to this point per the instructions.
Installed a new diaphram and gasket, and three new check valves.

Fired it up and soon discovered that now I had no spark at all on #1!!! When I started all this, I verified spark several times and all was good. I started double checking every connection to make sure I didn't hook something up backwards, but all seemed good. I stumbled upon something that "don't seem right". The black barrle connectors on the blue/yellow wires from the startor to the CDIs- one has the blue wire cut off right at the stator side of thr connector AND it is wired "upside down"-- the yellow wire connects to blue on the half of the connector. I dug further and found the blue wires off of the stator have been cut off and spliced with a butt connector, combining the two blues together into one. This one blue goes through the other "normal looking" barrel connector.
I pulled one of the blues back out and ran a jumper from it, bypassing the barrel connector and hooked it back up to the yellow (remember it's backwards)

I now have spark AND fire on all three cylinders!!!
Did I do good?? Or just find a Band-aid fix?? I plan to get out to the lake this evening to test it under load, and complete the link and sync

 

[A2M2]

Re: '84 Force 85 hp only firing on 2cyl

Ok- so, frustration continues. Where the heck do I turn next? It starts and idles beautifully. No more blue smoke, no more rainbow streak in the water, NO POWER EITHER!
I did the link and sync to the best of my abilities without a tach. It starts to get out of the hole pretty well, but then just never finishes. I could almost get in on plane tonight, GPS recorded a max speed of 15.3 mph. It is better, but not right. This thing ripped when I bought it last year:grumpy:
I had my daughter drive while I fiddled with the fuel bulb. It never got soft, and squeezing it more does not effect it. I ran with the tank open as well, to no change. Adjusting the needles only made very slight changes, netting around 1 mph changes. I worked my way from as low as 7/8 turns to more than 3-1/2. I could find sweet spots, but in now way was it near running right. Question- how high should the fast idle get? (Handle pulled out and shoved down) Even that is only marginally higher than regular idle
Please, please, help me fix this thing!!

Thanks guys!