85' 85hp Force no start

[braaflat]

Hi everbody. I got this boat thinking it was a good deal, 85 bayliner capri 700$. I work on cars and thought i could tackle a no start on an older boat... It cranked slow and the connections were good so i replaced the starter. Now it cranked good but i had no spark. Did some testing and determined it had a bad stator. Replaced that and then had spark. I then had fuel delivery problems. i ended up replacing the bulb, line, and coupling so there werent any air leaks. After verifying fuel delivery to each carb and still no start, i stripped down the carbs and soaked them in carb cleaner overnight.

Now heres the main problems: still dont start, when i squeeze the fuel bulb it pressurizes but then fuel squirts out of carb float bowl vent, and now when i turn the motor over it cranks a few and then stops, cranks a few then stops...etc. Battery has good charge.

Sorry about the long post, just wanted you all to know the whole story. thanks in advance.

 

[chuckz]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

If fuel squirts out of the vent, the float is not working. Can be a bad float, needle valve or seat. You need to rebuilt the carb.

You need three things to start the engine; spark, fuel and compression. Check the compression. If that's good I suspect you are flooding the engine.

 

[jdog1]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

I agree on the three elements for the motor to run. Check the plugs to see if they are wet. If not then fuel delivery is the problem. This could be clogged jets or as simple as the choke not engaging or not adjusted properly to close all the way. When dealing with eletronic ignitions always sure you have a good charge on the battery since the starter pulls so much amperage.
This can starve the ignition into not firing if the battery is weak.
If I remember correctly the compression should be in the 140-150 range.
You have three carbs and they all need to be working.
Also some types of spark plug will not fire under compression if the have been soaked with gasoline.
This is of course only a few things to check and there are others but I always have found it best to check the simple things first.

 

[braaflat]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

Im pretty sure the jets are clean because i soaked them along with the carbs in carb cleaner. I checked the spark plugs and they are dry. If i was flooding the engine wouldnt the plugs get fouled? Also the choke works and all of the carbs choke plates close at same time.

If the needle seat isnt sealing would this prevent the engine from starting? One more thing i forgot to mention was just after i replaced the fuel line and bulb and it still wouldnt start so i squirted gas/oil mixture in the carbs and it wanted to start but then would stop. thanks for the help

 

[braaflat]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

Im pretty sure the jets are clean because i soaked them along with the carbs in carb cleaner. I checked the spark plugs and they are dry. If i was flooding the engine wouldnt the plugs get fouled? Also the choke works and all of the carbs choke plates close at same time.

If the needle seat isnt sealing could this prevent the engine from starting? One more thing i forgot to mention was just after i replaced the fuel line and bulb and it still wouldnt start so i squirted gas/oil mixture in the carbs and it wanted to start but then would stop. thanks for the help

 

[john from md]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

If you have fuel to the carb bowls, fuel should be delivered to the crankcase as long as there is vacuum and the ports are clear. These carbs use a small hole in the body as the idle metering jet, the midrange and WOT are controlled by a combination of the idle jet and the main jet.

Soaking the carbs without blowing out the passages usually makes matters worse as the loosened debris finds its way into small spaces and clogs them up.

You can try removing he idle metering screw and squirting Carb cleaner to try and clear the passage. If this doesn't work, you will need to remove the carbs and do them over.

As for the starter turning slowly, the solinoid may have pitted contacts. If this is the case, then you will not get full amperage to the starter. Take a voltage reading at the starter and imput side to the solinoid when cranking. Any less than 10 volts with a good battery and you need to replace the solinoid on cable or both.

Solinoids go for about $20.

Let us know what happens.

John

 

[jdog1]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

Im pretty sure the jets are clean because i soaked them along with the carbs in carb cleaner. I checked the spark plugs and they are dry. If i was flooding the engine wouldnt the plugs get fouled? Also the choke works and all of the carbs choke plates close at same time.

If the needle seat isnt sealing could this prevent the engine from starting? One more thing i forgot to mention was just after i replaced the fuel line and bulb and it still wouldnt start so i squirted gas/oil mixture in the carbs and it wanted to start but then would stop. thanks for the help

If the plugs have no sign of dampness then I say it is a fuel problem. If it were me I would pull the carbs which if I remember is pretty easy ,only six bolts ,the fuel line and the linkage. This will allow you to check the jets and blow them out if necessary, the reed valves ,floats and needle valves.

 

[braaflat]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

OK, so initially when i cleaned the carbs i did blow out all of the passages but just to make sure i did what you said to do with the carb spray. Holding the throttle plate open i could see the carb spray shooting straight through the idle tunnel and out of the holes heading towards the reeds. I have no idea why the gas/oil mixture is not reaching the cylinders. I am borrowing a compression tester from a freind but Im pretty sure the compression is good. Its good enough for the fuel pump to be operational. Any more ideas? thanks

 

[chuckz]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

If you squirted fuel in the carbs and it started, you have a fuel problem.

If the engine is flooded, the spark plugs will be fouled by too much fuel. They will look clean.

Rebuild your carbs.

Your battery has nothing to do with the ignition on a magneto based system. The battery only provides power to the starter.

 

[braaflat]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

If my plugs were fouling out, wouldnt they be wet with gas when i pull them out? The are dry. (pulling them out just after priming and trying to start a couple of times)

 

[john from md]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

On a two stroke engine, if you are getting fuel or if you have flooded the engine, you will see fuel/mix on the plug. If you don't have any, you are not getting fuel.

Now, there are three carbs on this particular machine. The chances that all three are clogged after you cleaning them a couple of times is highly improbable. Possible yes, proabable no. So lets look elsewhere.

In order for the fuel to be sucked into the engine, you must have a good vacuum source. In this case, the pistons generate the suction needed as long as you don't have any intake leaks. Here is where your compression tester comes into play. Do a compression test and see if 1) you have a blown head gasket, 2) you have bad rings or 3) you have a burned hole in a piston. Any of these conditions can make starting difficult if not impossible.

While you are waiting for your friends compression tester. Fill up a squirt bottle with fuel oil mix and try shooting a couple of shots in one carb at time to see if they are all firing. After doing this, spray four or five shots in all the carbs and start with the throttle in neutral high idle with choke engaged. It should fire and run for a few seconds if there is no compression issues.

John

 

[braaflat]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

hey, thanks again for the help. I squirted a few in each carb with throttle plate held open and when i cranked nothing happened. Except the first time, it backfired.

 

[john from md]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

When a carbureated engine backfires, that is usually a sign that 1) it is lean or 2) the timing is set incorrectly. Have you checked to see that it is timed properly?

John

 

[braaflat]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

Im not sure if it is or not. Im getting a timing light from my friend in a little bit. I was going to see if Piston #1 at TDC center lined up with the 0 degree mark thats supposed to be on the flywheel but there are two marks and they arent labeled. they are about 2" from eachother. I think the mark it does line up with is 0 degrees and the other may be 5 degrees BTDC. Could the timing be off enough as to where it wont start?

 

[john from md]

Re: 85' 85hp Force no start

Looking at the flywheel marks, the mark on the right is top dead center. The mark on the left is 32 degrees before top dead center. Ideally, due to the poor fuel we have today, you should make a mark 5/32 to the right of the 32 degree mark. This will be 30 degrees and your engine will run better at that setting than the original 32 Deg BTDC.

John