85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

[Mike 23]

Hello, I am still trying to get my boat out with no luck. Last weekend was the worse since i took it all the way to Fraser river and ended up pulling it right back up after trying to get it going for 30 min. I hope you can help me to narrow down the issue. First it was giving me hard time to start. It was caughing and spiting, but finally started - a little bit rough (it had fresh gas). I thought the carbs are a bit dirty and it will go away. However as soon as i put in reverse or forward the motor died. It started right back up, but died again as soon as i put it in the gear. I removed the cover and started it up and open the throttle all the way. It was spitting at high RPM, but it didn't stall. So i don't know if this is fuel or electical problem?

Thank you

 

[brose]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Hello, I am still trying to get my boat out with no luck. Last weekend was the worse since i took it all the way to Fraser river and ended up pulling it right back up after trying to get it going for 30 min. I hope you can help me to narrow down the issue. First it was giving me hard time to start. It was caughing and spiting, but finally started - a little bit rough (it had fresh gas). I thought the carbs are a bit dirty and it will go away. However as soon as i put in reverse or forward the motor died. It started right back up, but died again as soon as i put it in the gear. I removed the cover and started it up and open the throttle all the way. It was spitting at high RPM, but it didn't stall. So i don't know if this is fuel or electical problem?

Thank you

I had the same isssue with my 125, and I syphoned all the gass out and dried the tank well. Put in new gas and oil mix and then it ran a little better. Still kind of rough but the mechanic at our local marina took one listen at it and said that hte timing was off. Try the fule thing first, then adjust your timing, it might work for you like it did me.

 

[Unbalanced]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Hello, I am still trying to get my boat out with no luck. Last weekend was the worse since i took it all the way to Fraser river and ended up pulling it right back up after trying to get it going for 30 min. I hope you can help me to narrow down the issue. First it was giving me hard time to start. It was caughing and spiting, but finally started - a little bit rough (it had fresh gas). I thought the carbs are a bit dirty and it will go away. However as soon as i put in reverse or forward the motor died. It started right back up, but died again as soon as i put it in the gear. I removed the cover and started it up and open the throttle all the way. It was spitting at high RPM, but it didn't stall. So i don't know if this is fuel or electical problem?

Thank you

Dirty carbs don't cure themselves.

Check for a nice blue spark on each cylinder. Then remove and clean the carbs. Make sure the idle needles are about 1 turn out from lightly seated and then check your link and sync.

 

[mreinsmith]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

I would get a baseline of what the motor is doing first before deciding what the problem is.

1 - check compression
2 - check spark on each plug and clean them
3 - check timing
4 - check carb adjustment and clean (meaning is the linkage opening the throttle correctly)
5 - Check the recirculation system fuel screens
6 - Check the screen in the Fuel Pump (and possibly even the fuel diaphram if you are that ambitious)

Some of this is reiterating what others have said above. But if you get a quick baseline of what you have can eliminate what isn't a problem and focus in on what is.

Let us know what you find

Good Luck

M

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Thank you guys for quick reply. I will do the list in the next couple days. The fuel tank was all nice and clean. I gather from your suggestions that this is more fuel problem than anything else. I guess this is good thing or better say less $$$$

How do you check the timing? I noticed in other posts people suggetsing to check the timing as well.

Take care!

 

[john from md]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Timing is checked with a standard timing light. You need to buy a manual if you don't already have one.

While you are waiting for the manual. Pull the plug wires off while it is idling and see if any don't shut the engine off. If this occurs, and the spark on the plug is good, you have a fuel delivery problem to that cylinder.

Now you need to look at the plug to see what color it is. If it appears to be clean, then it is running too lean. If it is black and oily, it is too rich.

Get back to us with what you find.

John

 

[mreinsmith]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

just don't hold on to the motor housing while you are pulling the plugs!

I always seem to forget that!

DOH!



M

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Reporting back on work that i have done so far:

1 - Compression is 120 even on all three cylinders
2- I cleaned all three carb. and air blow all of them. I set the adj. screw at 7/8 turn as some people suggested. The book recommends 3/4.
there is little screw on the side of the carb. that i can figure out what is for. i posted a picture for reference. do you know what is it? what is the right adjust.?

Now setting up the timing is whole different story. I checked the DTC line and it looks okay, But i can figure out the 30degree BDTC. I have a timing gun and the book. I contected the timing light to the 1st clinder wire. Cranked the engin and increase the RPM to 3000 when i check for the marks they are so far of. I turned the adjusting screw few turns but the lines seems not moving at all. Is it possible for timing to be so off and still starts the engine or I am doing something wrong?

Thank you!

 

[john from md]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Leave the little "screw" alone. It is an air jet for your main metering fuel jet.

Timing is done with the trottle in WOT using the starter motor.

I have a feeling you tried to do it with the engine running.

John

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

John, That is right. I was doing it with the motor running. It was pretty noisy!!

when you say starter motor do you mean i just crank the motor? In this case I need a second person. Thank you!

 

[john from md]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

You can buy a button switch with two allegator clips at most auto stores and Harbor freight. I think it is called a remote starter switch. It is used in cars when you want to bump the engine around from under the hood. They cost about $20. You attach one clip to the big red wire coming from the battery and the other to the yellow wire on the solinoid. Push the button and she motors.

The trottle needs to be in WOT for the cranking part. To do this you need to jumper the neutral safety switch. This can be done by wraping a piece of wire around both terminals.

John

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

John, I know what switch you mean. I can get one from a friend.

Should i unplug the spark plug wires except for #1 to stop the motor from running?

Thanks!

 

[john from md]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

You should remove all three and ground them. You can either ground the wires if you have some small jumpers with alligator clips or leave the plugs on and wrap wire around the plug shell and go to ground.

This step is important as, if you don't ground the plugs, you will damage your CDI modules.

John

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard

I am going to set the timing tomorrow. One other problem today was the first time i tried to fire the motor she wouldn't go. I had to lift the motor and lock it in half vertical postion and then she fired with a little puff. After that it didn't give me any problem. started with the first crank in horizontal position. Again few hours later i had to do the same thing. lift the motor, started and put it back in the horizantal position.

Do you know what it can be the problem?

 

[john from md]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

It may be you have fuel building up in the lower carb/crankcase. Have you cleaned out the recirculation orifice for the intake cover? If not, pull it and clean it out. It is located under the number 3 carb.

John

 

[dan4081]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard

I am going to set the timing tomorrow. One other problem today was the first time i tried to fire the motor she wouldn't go. I had to lift the motor and lock it in half vertical postion and then she fired with a little puff. After that it didn't give me any problem. started with the first crank in horizontal position. Again few hours later i had to do the same thing. lift the motor, started and put it back in the horizantal position.

Do you know what it can be the problem?

I have the same problem with mine.
Starts right up when tilted up but is very hard to start in the down position.
Only seems to be a problem on the first start of the day. After its been started it will start up easily in any position.
Very strange.

 

[john from md]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Two things that cause this problem routinely. 1) a hole in the fuel pump diaphram. The engine will still run, but you will be flooding the lower cylinder.
2) The recirculation system is clogged and you are flooding the lower cylinder.

Excessive smoking and excessive fuel use are two symptoms that go along with the hard starting in both of these cases. It is all relative to how big a hole in the diaphram or how clogged the recirc system is.

John

 

[dan4081]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Since I am new to this could you explain (In simple terms!) why it starts easier tilted then straight up and down?

Thanks in advance..........

 

[john from md]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Because tilting the engine allows the excess fuel to run forward in the intake and the crankcase. This allows a leaner fuel/air ratio during the relatively low vacuum of the starting cycle. After the engine catches and runs, it can absorb the additional fuel with no issue other than more smoke.

John

 

[dan4081]

Re: 85 HP force 1986 3 cylinder start hard - stall

Because tilting the engine allows the excess fuel to run forward in the intake and the crankcase. This allows a leaner fuel/air ratio during the relatively low vacuum of the starting cycle. After the engine catches and runs, it can absorb the additional fuel with no issue other than more smoke.

John

Ahhh ok.
Thanks for the explaination.