85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off !!FIXED!!

[cordell]

Hello I am curious here. I was running my 87 force 85 horse today. It started right up like normal and we took off. I stopped to swim and that was it. Nothing, the motor will turn but NO fire!!! My question whilke I read the forums is...Can a weak battery turn the motor fine but not provide spark? This is where I am leaning, or hoping at least...


thanks
cordell

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: No spark after running fine????

Re: No spark after running fine????

I just had the same problem with my 50 horse when we were out crabbing. I found the flywheel magnet came off the flywheel and stuck to the stator. I glued it back on and seems fine. Hope yours is as cheep as what i got away with.

 

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

I have had my battery charger hooked up for about 4 1/2 hours now. It has 4 lights 25% 50% 75% and FULL CHARGE. It is still stuck on 25%...Can the battery crank but not spark the motor???

I took a light and did a good look under flywheel and nothing looks out of place. where would find this magnet?

cordell

 

[Jimmy T]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Did you check you kill switch?

Jimmy T

 

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Yes kill switch has been checked. I even had another ignition wiring set up laying around and swapped that and still NO spark....


cordell

 

[Jimmy T]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

I am not familiar with your engine. Does it have CD Ignition (power packs) ?

 

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

I just disconnected the charger. It had been on the battery for about 7 hours or more. I had to add about 16 ounces of water total to the battery to bring it to level. The charger still reads 25% of charge...I did a test and volts are 14.5..then another test on my meter read 30 not to sure what that one was testing though. When charging this battery before 5 hours would get me 100%

cordell

 

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

I am not familiar with your engine. Does it have CD Ignition (power packs) ?

it is a prestolite style

thanks
cordell

 

[JT!]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

correct me if im wrong.


your outboard doesnt rely on the battery for a spark. that energy is entirely created under your flywheel.

your battery may have charging issues but it sounds like it had more than plenty of cranking amps to turn over that motor.unless you could hear it turning much slower than normal.

i'd take a closer look at your ignition system, start by checking your plugs for spark and check with your tester all the way up the line: coils, and alternator outputs with your tester set to AC volts, and your trusty manual by your side.​

 

[azlakes]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Hello I am curious here. I was running my 87 force 85 horse today. It started right up like normal and we took off. I stopped to swim and that was it. Nothing, the motor will turn but NO fire!!! My question whilke I read the forums is...Can a weak battery turn the motor fine but not provide spark? This is where I am leaning, or hoping at least...


thanks
cordell

... hiya Cordell,

yes. this is detailed from the link below. however, before i would go down this path, can you have your battery tested under load at a local Auto parts store?

A Large proportion of the problems with the battery CD units are caused by low battery voltage or bad ground connections. Low voltage symptoms are weak fire or weak erratic firing of cylinders. WARNING: Battery reversal will cause severe damage to the CD units and to the rectifier. NOTE: While the Chrysler battery ignitions are similar to OMC's, care must be taken with regards to the color codes of the wires. The chart below will assist you as a general guideline:

1. Red: +12V direct battery Conn. (RF Noise filter) 4. White: OEM Tachometer
2. Blue:+12V ignition switch 5. White/Black Stripe: Points or preamp
3. Gray: +Terminal of Ignition Coil 6. Black: Engine ground

1) Check all battery and ground connections

2) Check the voltage on the blue wire at the CD unit. If the voltage is less that 9 1/2 volts,
during cranking there is a problem in the battery circuit. Theses units require at least 9 1/2 volts to fire properly. Connect a jumper wire directly from the battery (+) terminal to the blue wire on the CD and retest. ATTENTION: In order to kill the engine if it cranks, the jumper wire must be disconnected and/or choke the engine. If the engine still fails to crank, recheck voltage as above. If low, replace and retest.

http://outboardparts.com/troubleshooting/troubleshooting12.htm

 

[maxum247]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Check the wires coming from under the flywheel from the stator to the terminal block on the engine to be sure there are no breaks or chafs in the wires and the ends on the wires aren't loose, also check any plug in connectors for a good connection.
Check the grounds and wires around the module and coil area and be sure there tight or the ends aren't broken. max!

 

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Electricity was out this morning and I couldnt log on. It was killing me to not be able to get to the forum!, So anyway I took the battery down to autozone and it is fine. I then began testing areas with a meter looking for power loss. I found power going to my stator, it goes through some sort of resistor first. 14.4 at the resistor and about4 if I remember right leaving the resistor towards the stator. From here at the stator it is hard to test as I can not get up in the flywheel. So at the block where the wires connect (coil side) I got no juice to any of these wires. I am thinking stator problem, or trigger???? I am going to pull the flywheel in a few. Be back with a report.

thanks
cordell

 

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

From the stator, the wires that lead to the block of wires (coil side) I get .487 on my meter. his is set at V and has :::: next to it but the bottom line is solid. So my stator is kicking out something. do I need to pull the flywheel still? These numbers are while cranking, when not crankg get no readings...

flywheel is now off. though I am not sure what to test and what setting on my meter?


thanks
cordel

 

[azlakes]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

From the stator, the wires that lead to the block of wires (coil side) I get .487 on my meter. his is set at V and has :::: next to it but the bottom line is solid. So my stator is kicking out something. do I need to pull the flywheel still? These numbers are while cranking, when not crankg get no readings...

flywheel is now off. though I am not sure what to test and what setting on my meter?


thanks
cordel

...hiya cordell.

I'm trying to see if this site is offering the readings you require to see if your stator has failed. please take a look at the link and see if any useful information comes from it. here is a snip from the trouble shooting portion. if this fails to gain results i can send you a PM with a possible solution that is best not posted.


DVA readings should always be taken with everything hooked up

1. Check for broken wires and terminals, especially inside the plastic plug-in connectors. We recommend that you remove the pins from the connectors using the CDI 554-9706 Pin Removal Tool and visually inspect them.

2. Check the flywheel for broken or loose magnets.

3. Disconnect the kill wires from the CD and connect a DC voltmeter between the kill wires and engine ground, turn the ignition switch on and off several times. If, at any time, you see voltage appearing on the meter, there is a problem in the harness or ignition switch. At NO TIME SHOULD YOU SEE BATTERY VOLTAGE ON A KILL CIRCUIT.

4. Visually inspect stator for burned or discolored areas. If found, replace the stator. If the areas are on the battery charge windings, this indicates a possible problem with the rectifier.

5. Trigger wire sets read approximately 50 ohms between the wire sets(DVA-5V or more), OEM stator reads 680-900 ohms CDI=250-300 ohms (DVA 180v or more) from blue to yellow. Neither trigger or stator should show any resistance reading to ground..

IF NO FIRE ON ANY CYLINDER:

Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK. Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator or trigger. Using the Fluke meter with the CDI 511-9773 Peak Reading Adapter, or CD-77 and CDI 511-9770 piercing probes, measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets is (OEM 980-900 ohms/CDI=250-300 ohms). Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

http://outboardparts.com/troubleshooting/troubleshooting13.htm

 

[cordell]

Re: Flywheel off and ready to test stator...help

Re: Flywheel off and ready to test stator...help

I got the 180-190 with the ohm meter. I then put back together and found 12 volts of cranking, with 4.5 volts going to the stator though the risistor. Is 4.5 enough?
the 4.5 is while cranking


then if I test for volts at the trigger wires while cranking I get nothing.
at the stator wires I get 1 volt///out-put
thanks
cordel

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

I have had my battery charger hooked up for about 4 1/2 hours now. It has 4 lights 25% 50% 75% and FULL CHARGE. It is still stuck on 25%...Can the battery crank but not spark the motor???

I took a light and did a good look under flywheel and nothing looks out of place. where would find this magnet?

cordell

If you had the flywheel off the magnet would be attached to the inside of the flywheel. If it is stuck to the stator it has come off. To check your stator you need a DVA ( direct voltage adapter) and a manual.

 

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

If you had the flywheel off the magnet would be attached to the inside of the flywheel. If it is stuck to the stator it has come off. To check your stator you need a DVA ( direct voltage adapter) and a manual.

The magnet was fine. The stator was tested with a regular meter. I got flashes of readings nothing solid. I am sure this is from the wrong meter.
I am going to wal mark to buy a new battery..they will return if it is not needed

thanks
cordell

 

[cordell]

Re: Tested stator and I think it is OK????

Re: Tested stator and I think it is OK????

Refusing to give up I took all spark plugs out. I then cranked the motor still no spark. But at the stator out put AND the trigger I was able to read under 1 volts with my meter set at 2. So this tels my stator is OK and trigger is OK. Could it be the switch..how would I test this? am still thinking weak battery! lol

thanks
cordell

 

[cordell]

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

To sum it up have 14 volts going into the rectifier and 4.5 going to stator from the rectifier. At the engine terminal board I get 1 volt from the stator, the stators output. Also at the same place I get .7 volts from a trigger output, the same on all 3 of them. The low idle on the triger of course, these readings are all taken while cranking. Any thoughts...maybe the switch???

thanks
cordell

 

[azlakes]

Re: Tested stator and I think it is OK????

Re: Tested stator and I think it is OK????

Refusing to give up I took all spark plugs out. I then cranked the motor still no spark. But at the stator out put AND the trigger I was able to read under 1 volts with my meter set at 2. So this tels my stator is OK and trigger is OK. Could it be the switch..how would I test this? am still thinking weak battery! lol

thanks
cordell

... i have been told before by an autoparts store my battery was fine and it wasn't. not enough umph to get me going. bought a new battery and all was well. trust your instinct.

testing an ignition switch:

3. Disconnect the kill wires from the CD and connect a DC voltmeter between the kill wires and engine ground, turn the ignition switch on and off several times. If, at any time, you see voltage appearing on the meter, there is a problem in the harness or ignition switch. At NO TIME SHOULD YOU SEE BATTERY VOLTAGE ON A KILL CIRCUIT.

the link i posted earlier gives the color codes of the kill switch wiring.