85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off !!FIXED!!

[cordell]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

.
I am going to wal mark to buy a new battery..

That didnt do anything but cost $75, I really dont want to start tossing parts into this thing!



cordell

 

[azlakes]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

That didnt do anything but cost $75, I really dont want to start tossing parts into this thing!



cordell

... that does blow, was hoping that would have been the simple fix. 75 is not chump change. Wal Mart is pretty good about returns and a battery a few hours may be refundable.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

Understanding the ignition systems helps to diagnose problems.

The stator makes a large voltage that charges a capacitor in the ignition module, the trigger makes a small voltage that triggers the ignition module to discharge the capacitor to the coil. The coil steps up the voltage and fires the plug.

Now before you run out and buy an expensive stator, read, learn and test correctly, because there is NO RETURN ON ELECTRICAL PARTS.

Follow the Rapair/CDI Ignition Troubleshooting Guide available free at their website to determine which parts is defective.

Also, use the proper tool for the job. A standard volt meter simply registers voltage present. A DVA meter has a small fixed load built within the meter, any coil/stator can make a voltage while still having a broken winding butted together, and yet when any load is placed on that voltage the butted broken connection fails.

 

[Jimmy T]

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Re: No spark on any cylinders after running fine????

Cordell, check out this website I found. Hope this helps. http://www.boatfix.com/how/chryign.html

Jimmy T

 

[cordell]

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

I connected EVERYTHING back together and now my buzzer goes off at the touch of the terminal. Not the one that trigger and coils connect to but the other one. I tested those kill wires (white) while cranking and get 1.2 volts running through it. The thing is when disconnecting the kill wires it still wont spark? I am wondering if that terminal can go bad? I had heard that radio shark has these terminals and mercury realized that and changed it when they took over....Any thoughts?

thanks
cordell

I was siting here thinking, when we stopped to swim I gave it throttle and killed the motor. I dont have tilt trim so I went to the motor immediately after killing to raise it up. I did not want the prop and skeg to get in the mud while beaching my boat. The water was shallow for a bit or I would normally leave motor down. My point is something seems shorted here, the buzzer going off, the voltage in white wire while cranking. Did water from the leg come up into the terminal board area and short something. Is this possible? I just cant see this motor dieing like that suddenly. I have had NO issues with this thing....

Would the solenoid short out, still allowing motor to crank but sending voltage back down the ground????

 

[maxum247]

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

Re: Tested stator and trigger BOTH read voltage...

The motor could have died for a couple of reasons suddenly. Fryed stator, did you notice burn spots on the stator windings when you had the flwheel off. Or Could be a bad ground at the Coil/CD module plate make certain the bolts holding the Module mounting plate to the engine block are tight, again check your ground wires on the module plate or anywhere else for that matter and be certain that they are good, sometimes it takes two or three try's to get the grounds right to make contact correctly so you get spark.
There could be a broken wire close to the connector ends that fasten to the terminal block. Pull gently on each wire end and see if the rubber cover on the wire stretches, if so probably a broken wire, replace the end, try cranking the engine and see if that solves the problem and you get spark.
Verify your grounds and check your wires and go from there. Let's get this thing sparking! max!

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

I have done all that 10 times over. The grounds I even made new ones doing the daisy chain like Frank has stated in a few other threads. My stator "looks" fine no burnt spots or even the hot spots you can see on melting electronics. I am seriously spun for a loop here. I contacted a buddy of mine to see if he had a DVA meter and well he dont but he gives me a # of this force mechanic. He seems to think maybe my flywheel magnet is sticking to the stator insted of spinning with the flywheel. I have had the flywheel off 2 times now but will look again tomorrow. Had a 13.5 hour day at work I dont think I will be out to the boat tonight. lol

thanks
cordell

 

[maxum247]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

It's got me puzzled, must be a short to ground somewhere! Maybe the igniton or kill switch.
There's something that has to do with a bad wire going to the ignition switch, if I could just remember what it is!
I'm going to study some more tomorrow and see if that might be it, I'll get back with you tomorrow night and let you know what I figure out.
These manuals just don't go deep enough into detail and I don't work on my motor everyday, so it's hard to remember everything that I run across from time to time when I have worked on it. max!

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Sucks being at work and thinking of what I will do when I get in. Today I had a go at the flywheel. The outer magnet IS attached very well. I tried to get it to budge left to right and up and down, nothing. The inner magnets are also in place. The plates designed to hold the 2 inner magnets seem to have heated at some point. In 2 spots almost directly across from one another the plates dip down a bit and have a black coating on the outside of the plates. Nothing real thick though. Also where the inner magnets sit inside the trigger, there is a oil substance. I will clean this off but I don?t think that is my fix. The trigger also has a few magnet looking things on it too, they all seem in place and stable.

Thanks
cordell

 

[maxum247]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Came across this today! It says to disconnect the rectifier and see if the engine regains spark, if so it says to replace the rectifier! max!

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

I will try this in the morning. Did you happen to catch what part/wire to disconnect? I taken off the green wires I now know to be part of the battery recharge. I didnt go much further than that. I am going to try all possible ways of disconnecting that thing in the morning. There are only 4 wires that hoof to it.

Thanks
cordell

 

[maxum247]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

It didn't say, it just said to disconnect the rectifier.

max!

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

I disconnected the rectifier with all possible combinations. Nothing different. I do not have a DVA meter but I do have a regular volt/ohm/amp meter. I tested the number 1 & 2 wires on stator, (yellow against blue). I got about 45 ohms. I then tested 3 & 4 wires (yellow to blue) and only got 10 ohms. This jumped from 12 to 9 but stayed around 10 most the time. Any thoughts?

thanks
cordell

 

[maxum247]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

I'm thinking ignition switch not sure why but it's been at my nerves all day! Something with the blue wire maybe!

max!

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

I just came in from the garage. The set of wires that had the 10 reading, one wire had a bad fitting. I replaced this and now get the same readings when ohm testing. Will try to fire in the morning. I think that blue wire is the dead man kill, not sure but says magnito on the terminal board. The 2 white wires that are kill to the CDI also say magnito at the terminal board. I have disconnected the blue wire, no effect. maybe it needs power? I am sure this thing will run again, I have faith in that. Just not sure when. lol

thanks
cordell

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

I know how you feel outboards are a different creature.

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

I know how you feel outboards are a different creature.

Aint that right! OK I feel like a idiot here as I am not sure if I am doing this right and it is making me mad. Lol I took the stator wires off the terminal board. I then set the meter to V 600 it had a solid line on top and a dotted line below, the setting of the meter that is. I took stator wire labeled # 1 and got 1 to read on meter. The # 2, 3, and 4 got 0. The meter lead was connected red to the stator wire and the black lead was grounded to motor/battery. Ground is good. I retested # 1 wire and got 0 like the other 3 wires. I then ohm tested again wire number 1 and 2 tested together meter set at 2m. the reading for 1 and 2 was 290-450. The reading for 3 and 4 was only 10-85. They never held a steady number, always going up or down. The tests with meter set at V 600 were taken while cranking. The ohm 2m setting were tested no cranking. I read somewhere that stator 1 and 2 should have resistance, the 3 and 4 should read 0. Any thoughts?

Thanks
cordell

 

[maxum247]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Found these two things!

1. To check resistance of the stator, disconnect the negative battery cable. Disconnect the 2 stator wires connected to the (AC terminals of the rectifier.)
Calibrate an ohmmeter on the appropriate scale to read the stator resistance specifications.
Connect the lead of the ohmmeter to each of the stator wires. Note the reading. (Should be 0.5-1.0 ohms according to manual.)



To check the stator for shorts to ground.

I beleive there speaking of the two stator leads disconnected from the rectifier for this test.
2.Calibrate the ohmmeter on the high ohms scale. Connect one lead of the ohmmeter to a clean engine ground. Connect the other lead alternately to each of the 2 stator leads. The ohmmeter should read infinity. Any reading other than infinity means the stator is shorted to ground and must be replaced.

Maybe this will be of some use!

max!

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

To check the stator for shorts to ground.

The ohmmeter should read infinity. Any reading other than infinity means the stator is shorted to ground and must be replaced.
max!

How would that read on a digital meter?


I went to two marine repair shops today. One says sounds like cdi boxes not a stator. The other says it sounds like a stator! lol BOTH say they can sell me a part but NO refunds!

I need a johnnyrude!!!!

cordell

 

[cordell]

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

Re: 85 hp Force no spark..buzzer going off

What about this thread, any truth to it?

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=258309

I have been going over things in my head about what went wrong. if my key was on could I have burnt my cdi's?

thanks
cordell